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  1. #1
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    Jul 2012
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    Default Joinery Advise Required - How to attach seat to stool?

    Hi There,

    I've come to an impass in my design and would really appreciate some advice.

    I'm in the process of building a prototype of a fairly simple stool and cant quite figure out how to attach the seat.
    The stool itself is very basic, square 4 legs, 4 rails right at the top and two toward the bottom with another going between the bottom two.
    The seat is a separate piece which is intended to appear floating 15mm above the stool (a couple of photos attached).

    photo 1.jpgphoto 2.jpg




    I have 3 ideas as to how i can attach the seat but i'm not sold on any of them for a variety of reasons.

    1. loose tennons going virtically between the top rail and the seat about 25mm in from where the rail joins the leg. There would be 8 tennons in total, 2 on each rail. I dont like this idea because it would put all the pressure of the person sitting on the stool, on the rail and therfore on the MT joining the rail to the leg. Not sure how long this would last.
    2. A dowel about 10-15mm in diameter in the top center of each leg. Not sure about this idea because it would have to go directly into the middle of the mitre of the seat... While the mitre has a spline in it im not sure how wise that would be. I'm in two minds about this because i kind of think that all the pressure would only be directly downward and may not actually cause a problem with the mitre.
    3. Exten the legs them selves by 15mm and put a rebate on the two outside edges to give the impression of ending at the rail. The only reason in dont like this idea is because i tested the effect using a couple of small offcut squares and it blocks too much light coming throuhg the gap and i feel it ruins the effect a bit.


    Does anyone have any other ideas on comments on 1 and 2 above?

    Thanks in advance,
    Mike

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  3. #2
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    Default

    it would put all the pressure of the person sitting on the stool, on the rail and therefore on the MT joining the rail to the leg
    That is a fairly normal situation. Why do you think that will be an issue? If you look at how a chair seat is typically attached to the frame, it usually sits on the rails, particularly at the back, it doesn't typically rest directly on the legs. So the forces are transferred to the legs through the M&T joints at each corner.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  4. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    ..Why do you think that will be an issue? .
    Basically, lack of experience

    I suppose you are right, I hadnt really looked at the typical construction of a chair with that in mind. Building chairs has always scared me

    Having a quick google image seach though i do notice that many have at least the front part of the seat sitting on top of the legs. Whether this is purely because it would be quite difficult and impractical not too, and there really is no reason to avoid doing this, or if its for reasons of necessary support is another question.

  5. #4
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    Some designs I have seen have the legs outside the 'footprint' of the seat, stopping short of the rails, or protruding up through the seat. An arm chair for example often has all four legs continuing on past the seat and it relies on the connections between the rails and the legs for it's strength.

    If your M&T are good, then it is one of the strongest joints going and should hold up fine. In fact a lot of chairs are simply dowelled. So you're already ahead of the game.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  6. #5
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    Hmm ok. Thanks very much for the replies.
    I will reconsider option 1 then. I gues time will tell how good my MT's are

    Cheers,

    ... actaully, I used loose tennons as I have a horizontal mortiser and it's much quicker for me to do the mortise on both components with one setup since the components are all the same size. Should be the same strength as a true MT though. (.....and cue lengthy debate )

  7. #6
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    I know a guy who builds exclusively with loose tenons (Festo Domino) and they are plenty strong. In fact I seem to recall reading somewhere that a study on doors had found loose tenons to be stronger than traditional M&T, although I'm not sure how that could be. Maybe because accurate fit is more easily achieved.

    Anyway it's a pretty common joint in modern furniture making because it is easy to machine and I'm sure it will be fine.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  8. #7
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    I'm with silentC on this. Shouldn't be a drama. Aren't loose tenons fabulous - cut components to finished length, so easy to prepare with the table saw and router table, so strong. I love 'em!

  9. #8
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    Out of the three options I like option 1. How high are you going to have the seat from the legs?

  10. #9
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    Yeah I like loose tennons a lot. The only issue i've had with them is when your making a set of say 15 stools, as i recently did for someone (not these stools). I ended up spending hours doing exactlly the same cut on my slot mortiser about 240 times - it got very boring. I got about half way and was dreaming of cutting some tennons just for a change of scenery



    Quote Originally Posted by Christos View Post
    How high are you going to have the seat from the legs?
    The gap will be 15mm so the top of the seat sits at 450mm. It's part of a set of 4 stools and table. The table is constructed exactly the same way and fits the 4 stools perfectly underneath it. I'll also make a covoer to go over the whole thing to protect it from weather. The idea being a small/compact set for appartment living or small appartment balconies.

  11. #10
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    Post a photo of the completed set when you're finished. The stool looks good.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  12. #11
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    Thanks SilentC. I will do that, it's nearly at glue up stage. Probably glue up next weekend all going well.

    Cheers all.

  13. #12
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    I think it would look good.

  14. #13
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    Just to throw an extra into the mix - a possible thought is to keep the floating idea and have the seat located on polished stainless rod epoxied into the seat and rails. Depending on the rod thickness you could have 2 or 3 per rail. This would also allow you to have whatever height of gap you wish.

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