Thread: Joining pine/wood to make panels, table tops etc

How are you finishing the edges before you glue them? It sounds like the edges are not perfectly 90 deg to the faces. If you dont have a jointer then maybe look at a jig to joint the edges using your router or modifying a router table into a jointer.

Cheers

Ian

You can use splines or biscuits or dowells or just glue them.

Before you use you chosen method though, the edges must be machined or planed so they fit perfectly when just sitting on each other edge to edge. That is, you should not be able to see any light or discernable join.

Some people do not even use clamps but hold one board in a vice and place the other on top after distributing glue on one of the faces. The top board is then rubbed backwards and forwards a couple of times before the glue is left to dry overnight.

Personally I do not usually use splines. I finish the edges with a No 7 handplane. It takes a little bit of time before you get it right but it is worth the effort.

Anyone who has "a clamp set" probably doesn't have a No. 7 plane.

Xtreme (do you mind if we use your first name?) as previously mentioned the first thing to be aware of is the boards need to be square on the edges to the face (one side of the board) and preferably "flat" and parrallel on both faces. Depending upon exactly how new you are this may or may not be obvious to you. Could you give us a little more detail about your knowledge and the tools at your disposal? I'm sure you'll be swamped with help and advice then, this really is a fabulous forum to learn from.

Will involve buying tools (what a bugger ) but I have found using a pocket hole system like the Kreg or cheaper versions to be good for edge joining boards, using a temp clamp to hold the two faces flush while you drive the screws into the pocket holes.

If you use glue the screws can be removed after the glue sets, a real benefit IMO of the quality and positive drive of the square drive screws.

Obviously you will want the pocket holes to be out of sight if you use this method.

Use the router handheld with a straightedge, or make up a "jointing" fence for your router table to get quality edges to join. Or visit the darkside and hand plane 'em.

Here's a couple of piccies out of a recent review of panel clamps by AWR, the steel one was quoted at $359 (:eek and the veritas ones were $59 ea (2 needed) plus the timber. Could be some inspiration for you to make your own if the whim takes you!


Good luck...........cheers........Sean

OK, gotta fess up. My experience is very limited. I have been mainly doing repairs to decking, fencing, etc and now starting to become a bit more ambitious. I do have a plane. I have clamp set, (Bunnings), scroll saw (my sons), drill press, two power saws and and a one week old Triton workcentre that suits me fine for space and requirements. Plus a couple of sanders, power drills etc.

I joined those shelves, as they came, didnt try to square up etc really because at the time I didnt believe that I could do any more with them, as such. Only cut the panels to size once the glue had dried.
Assume spline means thin piece of wood? Jointer? Could you guys suggest a good beginners book on the subject?

There are all sorts of fancy stuff for edge joining boards, but,
If you have straight square boards of "reasonable" thickness, a good glue and good clamping method should give you a reasonably flat board.

Firstly gaet your boards flat & the edges square and the edges true. (how you do this take a whole book )
Then present your boards up.
now you not only need to provide clamping force to close he glue joint.
You need to clamp it flat.
so you need some sort of "flat thing" to clamp to. a known flat board, some steel tube or something to keep it flat.
Then clamp at each end and at each join.
newspaper or plastic will stop everything sticking together.

Dude you need to educate yourself if you want to enjoy this stuff ( and thats half the funn). There are heaps of books and magasines and heaps of stuff on the net. check the local libruray. check out carbatec and timbecon and others.
google woodwork & get out your shoel.

Well have you hooked in no time, & buying & making the good stuff.
Also don't forget the arkive here there is good info for days right here on this bb.
cheers


Start with woodwork in theory and practise by ja walton.

Just to add that the glue on edge joints (if the edges are straight and square) gives a join that is stronger than the wood. Mechanical devices like dowels, biscuits or splines can be used to help align the board during glue-up, but are not required for strength.

I generally only glue two boards together at a time, and clamp small blocks on each side of the joint ends (make sense?) to align the boards. Put newspaper between the joint and the blocks so you don't glue them on. This technique should also be of help for panel glue-ups of more than two boards.

Panel clamps work very well for glue-ups. They keep the panels nice and flat.

These are a reasonable price and work great

http://www.gtp.com.au/cgi-bin/icomme...play=495&id=YF

...and there's a cheaper way as well. If you edge glue several boards and then clamp them tightly they may buckle as you've seen. But, if you place some other straight (preferably hardwood) boards across the glued up panel, on the top and bottom, and clamp those with F clamps they will keep your panel true (make sense?).

Another tip - when you clamp glue will squeeze out and you don't want your "cross" boards to stick to the panel right? Put a sheet of waxed paper (lunch wrap) between the panel and the cross boards to prevent them sticking together.

I have a few sets of the clamps listed by Sprog, and they work quite well.

I also have used clamps on the ends of the boards to make sure they stay aligned as some boards have a subtle twist or bow that only seems to show up when you glue 2 boards together - then its time for the sandpaper to fix that last fraction of a millimetre.......

Well.

What everyone else said. You need to get those edges very straight. A little bit of a gap in the middle of the join is ok, but gaps at either end is not.

If I were you, I'd get a hold of a handplane, and get it working well. Rip the boards through the workcentre you have to get straight (relative term here, might be good or not), then check and see how straight they are with a good straight edge. A nice big level is good, a long ruler is ok too. Take your plane and make sure it doesn't take too deep a cut. A nice light curly shaving is good. Thinner than paper if possible. Anywhere the board is 'high', ie: touching the straight edge, take a little off it with the plane, until you have a nice straight, clean edge on your board. Do this with all of them.

Also make sure the edges are square. All of them perfectly square, is again, not necessary. They do need to be complimentary to each other though, so that when they are glued together, the board will be flat. Don't expect them to be square off the plane or out of the saw. The saw has better odds though.

If they are off square, take two boards, with the edges that are going to meet in your panel and clamp them together face to face or back to back. Run the plane over them so that whatever angle you end up with, they will end up complimentary and should give you a flat panel. Do this for all the boards, face to face, then back to back or whatever.

Before you glue and clamp, set them all together on a flat surface and see how they all look. Does it look like it's going to work without too much trouble? All nicely meeting joints? All nice and flat? If so, glue and clamp. If not, you need to do more work.

The length of the plane you find isn't important, just as long as it can be made to work well enough to get you started. A longer plane makes life easier, but you can get by with a shorty. Don't go for a new Stanley, or anything cheap and nasty. Find and old Stanley. Will probably need some attention and blade shapening. Do a search for how to get that done, plenty of words spent on that subject around here.

Pipe clamps are probably better for this with regards to budget and such, but whatever clamp you have and is long enough should get the job done. If possible, a clamp every foot or foot and a half, and run one above, one below the panel. This will help keep it flatter and balance the pressure out over the joint. Extra clamps might6 be needed scross the joints to hold them together so you don't get a big step. I usually don't bother.

Anyways, the thing is bigger and stronger clamps mean you can possibly get away with less than perfect joints, just add presure. Not good, but once the glue is flowing, well... You can always run the saw down that joint and try again.

I did a pine panel on Sunday for a small shelf. Two pieces joined together, then chopped up for the shelf, the ends of the shelf and the braces. Joining the panels took 30 minutes once I touched them to having them chopped up. Didn't let the glue dry fully there, but it was supposed to be quick and dirty. At least that edge joint is good.

Find a book, google is your friend. It's not as scary as it sounds, and it's kinda like riding a bike. Once you get there, you know what to aim for from now on. And if you can do it properly, it means you can use wood that otherwise couldn't be used for a panel of some kind.

A good idea if you have the time is grab some 1x? stuff and join them up. See how you went, then rip them apart and go at it again. While playing with 'scrap' wood, you should also learn that planing against the grain doesn't work very well, and how to work out which way the grain is going.

The short version of all this is, the cleaner and closer fitting a long joint like this is, the stronger and neater it will be. Anything more than 2 long, long grain surfaces and decent glue is needed.

Worth the time to do it right...

Thank you all for your advice...you guys are inspirational!

You only need ask... ye shall receive!