Thread: Show me a better Joint

Hi Roddy .

How about giving a photo of your joint so that I can get a better idear.

Peter

Yes Roddy

After the Last Post some more information please A Pic would be Good!!!!

You see Rocky,

Cutting the holes in the endgrain with a hole saw accuratly is simple.

Once the pins are cut you would need to cut the waste off .which would leave you a shoulder all round,with the pins being part of the rail,a glueing distance on the pins of appox 170mm round long grain.


We are talking about a different joint ,don't knock it till you understand it.

Roddy

OK folks I will get a pic,

I havent been smoking this joint has real merite


Roddy

What's merite?
merante perhaps?
meteorite?
?????????? :confused: :confused:

So, what you are saying is a mortise and tenon, using round tenons, and that it's the best joint going, right?

Wrong.

If you use a completely round tenon in a round hole/mortise, you should be able to get very close tolerances for both your mortise and tenon provided you make them all accurately. Lets imagine for a minute that you cut those round tenons well with perfect shoulders, and then transferred those tenons to the stile and drill perfectly matching mortises.

The problem arises when you look at the joint you have created. Yes, it's a nice tight fit with plenty of glue area, unfortunately, the only good glue area you have is 2 thin strips on the sides of each dowel/tenon. The rest of the thing is all glued into the endgrain of the mortise which is crappy at best even with fantastic glue.

This is why mortise and tenons are usually square or have rounded ends, to get as much long grain to long grain gluing area as possible. It's also why doweled joints usually fall apart in short time.

Thanks for this anyway, it's a little more ammunition against all those dowel jointing doohickeys that keep cropping up.

Now, if you had said a loose tenon with rounded off square stock, maybe you might have something, but still, I'll stick with plain old mortise and tenon.

Do I get a prize or something now? Please?

Originally Posted by roddy97

Keep thinking about it,the penny might drop.

And when it does it won't be before time, cause what I've seen here makes me want to spend one!

Roddy,

Please explain. Rocker's maths was pretty good last time I tested him, and I can't seem to get yours to work.

Cheers,

P

Maybe Roddy is just trying to rattle our cage?

If his crappy joint works for him, that's o.k. by me.

I'll stick to M&T for my stuff though.

Roddy,
I'm trying to understand this joint. Are you saying its a bank of 4 dowels inserted in the end of the rail, and if that's the case, why use a holesaw not a drill (as someone already stated), or are you saying the holesaw leaves a set of dowels/tenons in the rail stock and you remove the waste with the panel saw? Sounds a bit like that loose tenon gizmo in the CarbaTec catalogue, which are more or less a Siamesed set of dowels.
Wandering a bit now....I once worked in a furniture shop where they invested in a mortice and tenon machine that made rounded versions of each: not oval, but not square, sort of in between. If I remember rightly it cut the matching sets in one operation, using the same action, which could be altered in any dimension. Bloody finicky thing to set up!
Cheers,

Now heres a man who knows what he is talking about,

And im happy to see some serious feedback instead of all the crap I have been hearing.

Your second theory is correct,but these fixed dowels can be cut very simple,and very accuratly,nothing finicky.

Roddy

Roddy
You better watch out that the axe weilder doesn't cut your mortice or tenon for you calling our queries crap like you just did.
Perhaps a photo would clarify things for we simple minded penny spenders.(good one P )
Did you ever stop to think that it might be that your descriptions aren't as clear to us as they are to you?
Oh, by the way, welcome to our little enclave, I think. :confused:

Point taken Hovo

Roddy,

Don't go getting all huffy, its just our way of taking in all this new learnin'...
OK, so there is a bank of round tenons or dowels. 1/How much gap between, to clean out the waste? 2/Is the parent timber going to be any stronger than an added dowel?...to me that depends on the type of timber and in particular the grain at that point.3/ What sort of hole saw is without a pilot drill in the centre?
Cheers,

Did I take my tablets this morning :confused: :confused:
Oh yeah. The world is lovely, all is fine.....

but I still don't understand what the joint is. :confused: