Thread: Need a jointer and thicknesser. Thinking of getting a Woodman combo. Your thoughts?

Originally Posted by grapeseed

I've got a crappy thicknesser which I plan to upgrade soon, and I am in need a jointer so I can get a straight / square edge (much of what I work with is bowed). I mainly work with rough sawn Norfolk Island pine, usually 200x25, 100x50 and 150x50 stock. Although I sometimes want to thickness bigger stuff.

In view of the above, any thoughts on going combo vs seperate machines? I've been told to avoid shorter jointer tables. This one is 1300mm. Is that considered short? I'm wondering if I might be better off with a seperate (larger) jointer for taking the bows out of my timber...

I'm going to buy new. I want to avoid Chinese made machines. Lots of great reviews for the Jet machines on this forum, but sadly they are apparently no longer sold in Australia. So I'm looking at a Woodman 12" thicknesser/jointer combo unit (Taiwan made). Anyone here have any experience with this brand? Any other suggestions?

I have the 12" version with the helical head. I'm quite happy with it and I haven't any issues jointing long boards. For my Shaker Workbench build, I jointed some pretty long tough Aussie Hardwood boards (Ironbark, Spotted Gum, Blackbutt). My bench top is around 2900mm long with approx 75mm thick endcaps at either ends so most of the boards for my top were at least 2.75 long. I didn't have any problems but I do have a couple of really sturdy crank-adjustable roller stands that I set up both at the infeed and outfeed sides to support the workpiece.

The digital counter on the height winder for the thicknessing table is a handy feature and pretty accurate as well to the point where you can change the height setting and move it back to the same reading and you'll get pretty much the same thickness. The other feature I like about the Woodman is that the infeed and outfeed tables are joined and you lift both up st the same time when changing in between modes. The re some other models where the tables are independent which mean it takes longer to change between modes. It may also mean the alignment of the 2 tables may be more prone to changing with repeated use but that's purely speculation on my part.

But it's not perfect, like most (all?) of these combo jointer/thickies, the fence is made of extruded aluminium whereas dedicated jointers usually have cast iron fences which are much stiffer and less prone to flexing under heavy load. The other issue with the machine is the dust extraction. The dust extraction metal hood, which flips up or down depending on the mode, has a metal flap inside that switches the air flow depending on the orientation of the hood (i.e. up or down). The operation relies purely on gravity. The problem is when in the thicknessing mode, the suction from the dust extractor is enough to overcome the force of gravity and the flap flips up (or down - I can't remember which) and the flap is pretty much in the jointer orientation. This results in the chips accumulating between the workpiece, the rollers, and the cutterhead potentially jamming the machine and at the very least affecting the quality of the cut. To top it off, the problem is exacerbated the stronger the suction from your DE. In other words, the issue may not manifest itself if you have 1HP dust extractor but will definitely happen with much more powerful DE's. My DE is a 3HP unit. Fortunately, the issue is easily fixed. I simply jam a bit of styrofoam in the hood to keep the flap in the correct position. Of course make sure you do this when the machine is off. I also do likewise when in the Jointer mode. The problem isn't as bad when in the jointing mode but it doesn't hurt. Some use magnets to increase the weight of flap and keep it from switching positions but I prefer to use styrofoam because in case it works itself loose, it won't jam the cutters or damage the DE.

Other than issues mentioned above, there's not really anything else I can think of to mention. For your use, you may be able to get away with the 10" model. The 12" has a 3HP motor requiring a 15A circuit. I'm not sure about the 10" model. The tables on the 12" are probably longer as well so keep that in mind when making your decision.

EDIT: I should probably add that if I had the space and the funds, I would choose dedicated machines. IMO, a dedicated jointer with longer beds and a more solid fence will give you better results. A combination jointer/thickie has it's compromises. And I'm not saying the Woodman is better than the other brands because I simply have no experience with the other machines. I would expect the jointer/thicky combos from Felder to be several notches above the Woodman perhaps in a different league entirely. I'm simply giving feedback on my particular machine. Nothing more.



Cheers,
Mike

One of the joys of this Forum is when you get such well informed personal responses as Mike's. Mike mentions the Felder combo, but at around five times the price of the Woodman, there might be a bit of sticker-shock, Grapeseed.

I like that the Woodman comes with a true helical cutter head as standard. This reduces the noise output by 10-12 decibells - each 10 dB is a doubling or halving of the noise level. This is a big advantage.

The argument between combos and separates really boils down to how well organised you are. If you can organise your jobs into a logical sequence so that you do a pile of jointing, then a pile of thicknessing, or vice versa, then you will appreciate the space saving of combos. But if you continually jump from machine to machine, then you will waste a lot of time converting combos, it will drive you crazy, and then you are a separates man. IMHO it really is a personality thing.

I have a 300mm thicknesser and would hate to have anything smaller - can always dream of larger but $$$$'s.

I would buy a old machine rather than new they were built better back in the day, as soon as you get a new machine out of the showroom you are already loosing money

I would definitely consider 1300 short for a jointer. But it depends on your usage if this will be an issue. What kind of length do you work in regularly?

At Tafe we have an old 10inch woodfast with approx 1600-1700 tables. I think it’s a great medium size that you can do most things on reasonably well.

I just bought a second hand 12inch jointer with 2150 tables and it makes long lengths an absolute breeze to flatten.

In regards to combo vs single machines, I think if you have the space and money; single machines win. But if either is tight, combos can be great.

Just spotted this combo with helical head

Jet JPT310HH helical head jointer thicknesser combo | Power Tools | Gumtree Australia Knox Area - Wantirna South | 1297109396

Nice 400mm wide old school Jointer, this would be my buy, but I already have a 500mm wide

Timber Jointer | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Lismore Area - Lismore | 1297167810

Thanks for the great replies guys.

Another thing I want to consider is the overall ruggedness of the machines

Are these style of thicknesser inherently more rugged do we think? There seems to be a lot less moving parts involved than the combo machine, and all cast iron, which makes me think they're far more likely to stand up to decades of abuse. I imagine the Woodman a bit more of a "hobby grade" that one needs to be a bit more delicate with...But I'm only guessing.

Any thoughts?

I only have had experience with a very old SCM combo machine, but it was not so easy to adjust the tables from the inevitable sag that occurs.

Whereas we noticed the woodfast at Tafe was sagging which has traditional dovetail ways, so I cut up some coke can and shimmed the out feed table back to co-planer with the infeed. Was surprisingly quick and easy.

You can definitely buy second hand industrial grades machines for way cheaper than new hobby grade. Which if looked after will out last you. Which is exactly what I do.

The cost and quality of most new equipment is so poor compared to the old stuff.
But I do know there is a lot of reassurance in having a warranty and no previous owner doing silly things to it.

I would just recommend buying machines that you can test running and have been used up to the point of sale. It’s machines that haven’t been touched for years that are more risky.

I haven’t seen a woodman in person, so can’t really comment. But wouldn’t be sure regarding decades of service. Probably depends how much and heavy the usage is.

I love my 12" Woodman. No snipe. Finish equivalent to 240 sandpaper.

Previous comments on threads here and here. Including issue over faulty switch and after sales experience.

I have a 3HP DE and haven't experienced the same problem above that Mike mentioned.

I also find that flicking it over from jointer to thicknesser or reverse is extremely quick and easy.

Jane

Originally Posted by Toomnus

..... You can definitely buy second hand industrial grades machines for way cheaper than new hobby grade. Which if looked after will out last you. Which is exactly what I do. ...

Even more so if it is for 3-phase power, and you have access.

Only caveat that I would add is the possibility of retrofitting a helical head - they are so much better than straight cutters. Quietness is golden!

I know that last statement will upset some traditionalists who still get good service from their straight cutters. But then some people actually like Harley Davidsons; others say they merely convert petrol to noise without the inconvenience of power.

I have a full set up combination machine on wheels. Why? Because when I move it I am moving 5 machines at the same time, either out of the way or into service. I also have a 16" planer, also on wheels. This eliminates the need to swap from jointer to planer on the combo which can be a hinderance when you wish to use both intermittently.
A wide planer is handy as multiple boards can be passed through at the same time, speeding up the process dramatically.
I find a 12" jointer adequate but a 12" planer limiting.
Would I buy new? Only if there wasn't anything of quality second hand. There are some good machines out there and often at very reasonable prices.

Originally Posted by grapeseed

Thanks for the great replies guys.

Another thing I want to consider is the overall ruggedness of the machines

Are these style of thicknesser inherently more rugged do we think? There seems to be a lot less moving parts involved than the combo machine, and all cast iron, which makes me think they're far more likely to stand up to decades of abuse. I imagine the Woodman a bit more of a "hobby grade" that one needs to be a bit more delicate with...But I'm only guessing.

Any thoughts?

I've got the Carbatec version of that one and have had it for about 6 or 7 years now. There's nothing yet that it hasn't been able to do and I haven't rotated the cutters yet. I've done a couple for nicks though. The only thing that I would like (or add) would be a digital thickness gauge. The old school slide analogue ruler / gauge is ok but it's fairly coarse and I need to use a digital one for precise work. Having said that I love it.

Cheers

Bryan

I bought the Jet 12" combo with helical cutter in 2014 and it served me well enough once I'd sorted out the coplanar issue with the tables - they were out when it arrived. A few years later I had problems with a drive chain but the warranty took care of that although i had to cart the machine to Brisbane. Over the years I got a bit frustrated with the Jet and toyed with upgrading to the Hammer A3 26 (260mm wide) as I hardly ever needed the full 300mm, so when an opportunity to buy one second hand came up locally I bought it ($4K). It came with 2 x 400mm extension arms for the jointer and wheels. This machine is probably 2x the cost of a 12" Woodman but i have to say its been an absolute pleasure to use. Its heavier, much better built and more stable, the accuracy/repeatability of the thicknesser and quality of the wood finish routinely exceeds what i could achieve with the Jet (which was OK). But it does have an aluminium fence which is fine for me because I don't work with large/heavy timbers very often. I find the combo easy to use - takes a minute or 2 to swap over and the machine footprint is modest. 2Hp 15amp DC cyclone system keeps everything clean. If you do a lot of timber dimensioning thats not too large and this is going to be your forever upgrade I'd seriously consider the Hammer over anything Chinese/Taiwanese, if you can afford it.

Woodman do a 400mm (16") version . . .