Thread: Magazines - get a better deal.

I have been following this discussion and I still don't see what the problem is.

As I understand it the retailer has been acting perfectly correct. I am not convinced that the retailer resorted to lying or missleading behaviour.

When asked for a discount the salesman responded with "We can't discount this product because there is no margin, and if we did we would be out of business" I would believe this could be correct and fair enough. They don't have to discount.

Then after you left you noticed in a magazine that they had a special offer to readers of that magazine which made it cheaper than their normal ( and even discounted especially for you ) standard price. That again is fair enough.

Now your objection seems to be with the phrase "We can't discount this product because there is no margin, and if we did we would be out of business" because they did offer it cheaper through the advert.

Monoman have you considered the possibility that they were testing the effectiveness of their advertising efforts by offering a special price even though they would be selling at a loss and if they did that too often they would be out of business?

This practice is fairly common in retailing where they offer different deals and prices in various magazines and also different prices in pamphlets and again in different suburbs.

This is neither lying nor missleading behaviour. Your annoyance is understandable but maybe more research on your part would have been advisable.


Peter.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Monoman have you considered the possibility that they were testing the effectiveness of their advertising efforts by offering a special price even though they would be selling at a loss and if they did that too often they would be out of business?

This practice is fairly common in retailing where they offer different deals and prices in various magazines and also different prices in pamphlets and again in different suburbs.

This is neither lying nor missleading behaviour. Your annoyance is understandable but maybe more research on your part would have been advisable.

Peter.

Sure, test the advertising, only offer the discount to those which have seen the add. I have no problem with that. But don't lie about it. A simple "no", "that's all we can do for you" is fine with me. Wouldn't that still allow them to test the effectiveness of their advertising with resorting to lying?

Your second comment is correct. No problem with that.

What's them lying got to do with more research on my behalf? I knew the price ahead of time. The magazine came out the same day, so I don't see that as relevant.

When it comes down to it, many of the machines which look the same, are the same. Sure, they may be painted different colours, and have some minor differences, like switches, or in the case of the thickmesser, have infeed and outfeed rollers rather than cast iron tables. What does matter in the end is how you percieve the value that the dealer adds (quality of service, courteousy, honesty, etc.)

Enjoy.

Monoman

I suggest you do some real fine woodwork this weekend which will make you feel heaps better. I know we won't be able to change your mind on the matter and quite rightly so because you feel done by the dealer. At least 3 of us don't seem to think the phrase is much of an issue, obviously the salesman wasn't going to discount it to you. So mate, have a good weekend, life's too short to spend it grumbling. No matter how hard you or I try, the dealer will do what he wants, the only thing you can do is vote with your spending power.
Cya

Following is a GIANT RANT!


There’s a book called “The Cluetrain Manifesto” that addresses some of the different things taking place now that we live in a very connected economy. One of the things in the manifesto says “Markets are conversations”. This can be a little hard to grasp until one reads this thread and ones like it. I believe regardless of how we feel about these particular retailers, we are their market and we are having conversations that are basically in the negative toward various retailing behaviours. Imagine if the salesperson had said – right now we can’t do a better deal for you, but if you go and buy this magazine, you will be able to get a better price…..

Would this have made the situation better or worse for the original poster?

Would he have then posted that he got a good deal from the place?

Would the salesperson be worthy of praise or reprimand as the “sale” didn’t come via a legitimate response to the Ad?

Would the original poster have posted anything at all if this had happened?

The implications become mind-boggling (for me at least)




My take on good business is that it is IN the business of providing beneficial goods and services profitably ..... my European mates laugh at the way us "skips" try to do deals ..... they reckon we go to one or two places - ask for next-to-nothing off the price and then crack the s when we don’t get it, OR feel like real winners if the sales droid acquiesces to our offer. They shop shop shop (and network like demaons) - AND get prices that at times are fantastic. A gross generalisation I know.

One example is my fridge and freezer – I shopped at the usual places and got the price from $2200 to $1980 delivered to country Vic. I was happy and about to go ahead when a mate offered to go to the same place and haggle $1875 after 10 minutes. Only $105 but I would rather have that than give it away, unnecessarily.

Basically we no longer have any real faith in what traders tell us is the price. Mind you, just paying up and getting on with life is often easier than spending our lives trying to save 3cents on a length of pipe. (to quote George Bailey in It’s a Wonderful Life) but businesses need to get their customer interface at a far more human level, or else! Living in a small country community, I have seen what happens to local traders when big business moves in – they cease to exist, unless they have given customers a reason to continue dealing with them, like a high level of service and treatment with appropriate regard.

When I do my work as a consultant, I have a price range I charge for my services that covers a number of things - paying bills is first, then an amount that enables me to keep focused on the task, without having to keep running after the next dollar at the expense of the job at hand - then there's the profit, out of which comes the development funding for business growth.

Sorry for going OT. Customer Service is something I have been passionate about for as long as I can remember - In the world of retail, it is rare for anyone at store level to know what the real profits are. But telling someone ALREADY IN THE DAMN STORE to buy $3000 worth of capital equipment that a $40 discount is all they can have, seems like commercial suicide! Treating people like bloody idiots is the realm of another time, when it was far more difficult to get information about pricing and real margins. Today, we have the net and these wonderful forums to get all the info we need – DON’T TRADERS REALISE THIS!!!!!!!????? Apparently many do not.

A very good friend of mine finally cracked it with “that Richmond mob”. He was prepared to spend around $80,000 on new machinery and got what could only be described as pathetic treatment by them….. so here’s what he did. He got on a plane and went to China, to the world’s largest machinery expo. There he ended up spending $40,000 in total on more equipment that he was going to get here for 80K! The cost included his airfare, accommodation, door-to-door delivery AND he met some other Aussies there who placed an order with him for $12,500 worth of items to be made back here! To add to the whole affair, he also decided to start importing some finished products in steel to add to his offerings in timber. NONE of this would’ve happened if he had been treated right in the first place – at 36yrs old his trip to China was his first out of Australia. He is now back there on his second trip to explore opportunities for importing other related items.

So, to all the businesses who think they can treat us like dills and survive, I have this to say to you all. We are watching, but we are not waiting….. get your act together before you are treated like the dinosaur your attitudes/actions indicate that you are …… you need to treat people with dignity while providing a fitting product for a fair price. When the price is challenged, have some brains/balls and ask the person what it will take to ensure they leave with your products instead of someone else’s, and see if you can do it….. to think they let the original poster walk is just plain scary – I guess they must be doing so much business that they can simply afford to.

OK I am off to check my medication

Hi Grant,

Wow, I'm impressed. Someone else on this forum has read the cluetrain mainfesto. I added a link to www.cluetrain.org in an earlier post on this thread.

These conversations (like this one) which are occuring have no ears for marketingspeak. It's like water of a ducks back. No sooner does some manufacturer make some claim, than people are openly discussing its merits. So the sooner companies recognise that we are all talking about them, and not much of it is positive, the sooner they'll work out how to be our friends. Personally, I'd like more companies openly discussing their products on these forums - just leave the selling out. Try and sell to us on this forum, and you better be offering the best deal, for a product that does more than you claim, and have an even better reason than that to intrude - then we might listen to you.

A lot of people have gotten hung up on the discount part of my original post, whereas, to me, it had almost nothing to do with the price, but everything to do with the ethicality. If their price would've seemed more attractive to me at the time, I would've bought it on the spot, gone home, and posted a message saying how happy I was with the service. But it wasn't, so I defered the decison.

Funny you should mention China. The reason the dealer contacted me again, was because I had emailed a taiwanese company to see if I could buy from them directly a model which isn't carried in Australia (MBS250 10" table saw). The Taiwanese company passed my email on to the Melbourne company. They called me, and I gave the guy an earfull as to why I would not buy from them.

Anyway, Sorry about the rant. Good to head people are reading the cluetrain manifesto.

Cheers

agree with all you say here (except for the Grant bit....my name is Steve )

I found cluetrain an OK read and am due to revisit it shortly .... another book you may be interested in (though you may have already devoured it) is BLUR. I found it and Built To Last absolutely brilliant! (I spend much of my life working with firms to re-humanise their practices - how's THAT for a bloody motherhood statement)

OK back ON topic ..... I reckon you should persist in trying to get your saw direct or elsewhere – I may have a contact for you – PM me if you’d like to have a conversation about that .... even a 12inch model which would kill the 10 incher .....

k really back onto woodworking now ……

What is it you intend to make with your new tools?

What style of furniture do you love?

Have you made pieces already and if so, which are the ones you're most happy with?

Which timbers do you like to work with the most?

And finally, what do you wanna build next?

All these and more in the next instalment of ......

(ps. I became aware of cluetrain through a review in Fast Company magazine , back in 99)