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  1. #1
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    Jul 2020
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    Default First Major Cabinet Making Project

    I'm about to embark on my first major cabinet making project.
    Full fix out of new walk in robes.
    We have previously had the wire rack systems and want something better.
    We've looked at the flat pack systems and I think I can do better at a cheaper price and get the enjoyment of doing it myself as well.

    Wife wants it all white,so that is what it will be. Don't like melamine - it looks cheap and eventually chips. So it looks like I'm up for some painting.

    I was originally going to build it all from 18mm MDF due to its low cost and flat stable surface that paints well. But for a number of reasons I'm considering changing to 15 and/or 16mm ply. Only MDF would be the drawer fronts and there are lots of drawers. Current design has 17 of them.

    B grade ply face on all 'seen' surfaces. So a combination of BB, BC and BD.
    Materials cost will be around 3 times the cost of MDF.

    Is it worth the extra cost?

    I've never worked with appearance grade ply before.

    Looking for advice and ideas from those with more experience - meaning most people here I suspect.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    South Australia
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    Default

    My experience is at best modest, however for my two bobs worth. I would only use ply in paint grade cabinet projects if weight is a concern, otherwise I use MDF. My thinking is MDF is cheaper, more stable, easier to machine, no risk of ply voids to deal with and much easier to obtain around here. Once painted no one is going to care whether it is ply or MDF.

    I am am currently painting a tallboy chest of drawers I made for my wife, all made from MDF. When I built the Kitchen for our camper trailer I used ply as weight was critical.

    Cheers Andrew

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    Default

    I'm no expert on plywood, but I agree with Aldav - the only reason to use "appearance grade" ply is if you're going to stain/varnish it and the wood will be visible.

    In all other cases, paint grade will do fine, but I would also be leaning toward MDF if you really don't want melamine (though, if properly cut and edgebanded, melamine shouldn't chip)?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Central Coast, NSW
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    My opinion - make it painless by reconsidering your aversion to melamine. It will not chip if done properly - and frankly I don’t think it looks nearly as cheap as painted ply. Unless you have a decent spray booth and a lot of time to fill/sand/fill then any flaw in the ply surface will show through - some people may not be bothered by that but I’m guessing your wife wants smooth, flawless, easy clean effect as is seen in all designer mags etc.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  6. #5
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    Jul 2020
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    Default

    Thanks for the input guys.
    My reasons for considering ply over MDF are:
    There will be a massive amount of cutting. My plan is to Dado all shelves and drawer bases. That is a lot of MDF dust and I have a shop vac based 'dust extractor' currently.
    I'll probably use pocket holes for most joins. Screws will hold better in ply than MDF.
    I've never made drawers with MDF and was concerned about the longevity of MDF drawers with their constant movement.
    While weight of the finished product is not a concern once in position, wielding full sheets of MDF around the workshop for cutting won't be easy.

    In terms of cost, it is the BB grade that is expensive. It is Hoop Pine ply and the best price I have is about $160 per sheet. BD (about 50% of the project) is around $50 per sheet, so not too bad. BC which I plan to use in drawers is around $75. All Australian made ply.

    While cost is a consideration, quality of the end product, both in looks and long term strength are the main issues.

    I need to think this through a bit more.

  7. #6
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    So your comments and my response prompted me to reevaluate the project.
    When I checked my allocation of ply grades to components, I discovered that my main use of BB ply was in shelves. Nuts.
    So I am now thinking I’ll use ply in all the places with lots of dados and the drawers, with lots of screws. All this ply will have a B side, so should paint well, but is not too expensive as it is all good one side.

    For the shelves I’ll probably use 18 mm MDF. Just cutting, no dados. Will be supported by the dados in the ply side walls, glue and probably a few brad nails. White melamine coated 3mm MDF backs. MDF drawer fronts.

    I’ll prime and paint before assembly, then final touch up when done.

    A hybrid solution that won’t cost the earth, but address most of my concerns with MFD.

    Time to lock it in and get on with it I think.

  8. #7
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    May 2018
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    You seem to have reached a conclusion, however I thought I would throw in a couple of comments around some of your concerns re MDF. weight wise and shifting full sheets, maybe consider whether you really need 18mm and whether 16mm will do, I use a lot more 16 than 18 in my projects and whilst i can lift an 18mm sheet its a struggle, 16 is much easier to handle.

    I don't really get the whole pocket hole idea, I am sure it has its place, however for paint grade in MDF I just glue and screw the joint together through the face and into the "end grain" and use a 2 part filler to cover the screw head, much easier, neater and stronger in my opinion.

    As for the dust, maybe look at how much you can save using MDF and invest the difference in better dust extraction, only you can do the numbers on that though. Personally i have a Festool tracksaw and extractor so that does a great job. If I am using the table saw that has a 3hp dust extractor and I have an evaporative air-con in my shed, so i can turn that on, or at least the fan, and dust then becomes a minor issue for me.

    Cheers Andrew

  9. #8
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    re cutting and dust. is there a local mens shed (who probably have much better dust extraction then you) that can do the bulk of cutting and breaking down for you if you give them a cut list?

    at least that might mean you only have to do a hand full of cuts or dado's your self

  10. #9
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    Apr 2018
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    Nsw
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    FYI a lot of the kitchen guys use Matt finish melamine as their base if they are painting it, saves a lot of prep work and the internal faces are already prefinished which saves a lot of work as well

  11. #10
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    Default

    If I am reading you right, Norm, you are talking about shelf and drawer units inside a walk in wardrobe, not something that will visually dominate your public rooms.

    May I suggest that you review your adversion to melamine as it is so much easier to keep clean than other surfaces and so much more chip resistant. The only real competitor is two pack spray paint with a lot of preparation and polishing. Also, I hate MDF, chipboard and melamine dust!

    Second, may I suggest that you get a local joinery to supply, cut and edge band the melamine. They can buy Melamine far cheaper than you and their edge banding machine is fat superior to any iron-on product that you may use. [Some while back, I did a complete kitchen rebuild with 28 drawers and 7 cabinets; local joinery supplied, cut and edge banded all melamine for $50 more than I could have bought the sheets and no dust, no mistakes and accuracy to less than 0.1mm.]

    Finally, I agree with your choice initial of 18mm sheet material as it is far more foregiving with an errant driven screw. Also HMR melamine is always better than plain and same price. Dadoes are just not needed.

  12. #11
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    I'll second GraemeCook - for a smallish project like my laundry which needed two custom sized cabinets, I'd do it all DIY again without worrying too much. For anything larger, find something like Mr Ply & Wood in your area, that will cut and edgeband to your dimensions. If you're dead set on painting yourself, you can get pre primed MDF from this type of supplier as well, save you a step. You can also get chipboard or MDF in many different finishes. Melamine or laminate will wear a lot better than paint. With proper edge banding, the edges won't chip either. They have a huge range of products to choose from and most of them only have a fraction of their stock on their websites.

    Have you done any large built ins or the like before? I don't want to teach you to suck eggs but a critical part of the job is going to be installation. My suggestion would be to make the joinery easy on yourself by getting the panels cut by the pros, then focus on putting it together plumb and level - which is usually easier said than done as there will be few or no square corners or flat and level surfaces to work off.

  13. #12
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    Aug 2018
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    Portland Vic
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    I think you would be chasing paint touch ups unless you do 2pac for paint, what sort of paint were you thinking? Melamine is so much easier especially as said further up in the post you get a cabinet maker to supply and cut the sheets and edge them.

  14. #13
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    I have to disagree with all the concerns about the paint. I built my pantry shelves and drawers out of MDF and painted them 20 years ago. The paint is still fine.

    Cheers Andrew

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Ringwood, VIC
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    Default

    +1 for getting a supplier to cut and edge.
    My supplier (all board, Melbourne) charges by sheet and cut, optimises the sheet size to the cut list, and even returns the offcuts.
    Guaranteed square, and they can route as well.

    I guess it doesn't seem quite in the furniture making class, but you'll have time and brownie points to do something on your list.

    You could go the same way with raw then finish and paint instead of melamine.

    Peter Millard youtube makes custom furniture using mdf and paint, he did a couple of vids on painting. Apparently a lot of work to get that 'monolithic' seamless look so he often sends it out for finishing.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    If I am reading you right, Norm, you are talking about shelf and drawer units inside a walk in wardrobe, not something that will visually dominate your public rooms.

    May I suggest that you review your adversion to melamine as it is so much easier to keep clean than other surfaces and so much more chip resistant. The only real competitor is two pack spray paint with a lot of preparation and polishing. Also, I hate MDF, chipboard and melamine dust!

    Second, may I suggest that you get a local joinery to supply, cut and edge band the melamine. They can buy Melamine far cheaper than you and their edge banding machine is fat superior to any iron-on product that you may use. [Some while back, I did a complete kitchen rebuild with 28 drawers and 7 cabinets; local joinery supplied, cut and edge banded all melamine for $50 more than I could have bought the sheets and no dust, no mistakes and accuracy to less than 0.1mm.]

    Finally, I agree with your choice initial of 18mm sheet material as it is far more foregiving with an errant driven screw. Also HMR melamine is always better than plain and same price. Dadoes are just not needed.
    yes yes yes my thoughts exactly, local cabinet maker. If you go in with all detailed drawings they will go out of their way to help. There must be a number of them around your area,
    I would love to grow my own food, but I can not find bacon seeds

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