Thread: How do you measure up?

Just like you, I use a vernier to measure a lot of things, a dial indicator to set the router table and miriad of rules and squares to do fine work.

How do you do it? Am I just a picky old bastard?

NO YOU'RE NOT!

I edited your post to show how close it is to my method....

I use a tape measure for rough cutting stock, and for measuring more than 1 mtr (I have checked the first 2m of my tape against my rule and find it matches almost exactly). I use a 1m and one foot metal rule. I work in .5mm regularly and sometimes .25mm.

I use calipers and rule to check thickness.

I mark with a sharp pencil or a marking knife.

Ben

Edit: I can't speak for the last bit, I don't know you that well

I think the issue of accuracy depends on the application.

For example, when fitting a lid to a little turned box, a fraction of a millimetre can be critical. That said, I would never try to measure it using a rule or digital calipers for the last few cuts, so the question is probably redundant.

Otherwise, I find that near enough is good enough for most applications - so long as all the "same" parts are cut to the same length. For example, 4 table legs cut to say 752.5mm using a stop on my sliding table saw are no better or worse that 4 legs cut at one mill less.

From my perspective, the more important accuracy issues relate to squareness. Square end cuts. Timber milled to square, particularly for glue ups. What's the point in getting a piece of timber exactly to 35mm thick if the face isn't at 90 degrees to the edge?

Remember, we are working with wood, a material that moves substantially over a year. What might have been 25mm thick over a wet summer will be somewhere less over a dry winter. So what's the need for accuracy with .1mm? Dunno. Someone out there must be working to fine tolerances, but I can't imagine an application.

And yes, I do have to wear glasses when taking a measure from a rule (I don't trust tapes that much) or when setting a saw fence or stop. I am as fussy as I can be, but I don't get too worried about it. For really fine work - like inlet doors - I test fit again and again until it's right. No rule or measure used at that stage! Again, squareness is our main problem when working wood.

A can of worms is open here, so I hope the discussion remains civil.

Jeff

I can't comment about leakage, except to note that swelling of wet wood can close some gaps.

I've had best results by using only one tape on a project. This way, it doesn't matter how "accurate" it is.

Measuring, and transferring the measurement to the workpiece, is subject to memory fade and "pencilgraphic" error, especially with Imperial units and fractions; metric less so. A story stick with markings as needed eliminates such errors.

Spot on about squareness. An error of less than one degree can stand out like a sore thumb, to the discerning eye.

Perfection can be the enemy of the good. But seeking perfection without achieving it is also good. Your own priorities matter more than any of your critics, and should be project dependent. Tailor your tolerances to each situation.

Joe

A can of worms is open here, so I hope the discussion remains civil.

That's what happened before and it broke out in a name calling session!

PLEASE, just tell us how you do it and don't criticize how others do it. OK?

My methods work for me, I just thought we might learn something to make our
work better and easier.

What did they want to to do?
and how does everyone else measure?

Cheers

Steve

Papa, I'm much the same as you. However, I am metric (most of the time) and also use a marking knife. As others have alluded to, project type has an influence here. I would not go to this trouble if I was building a house - cabinets, another thing.

Tape for rough cutting, steel rule (1m, 30cm, 15cm) for layout. I work in both inches and mm. Inches are better for component layout in my opinion. Millimetres for everything else. I wouldn't go any lower than 1mm or 1/16th. No point in my opinion. For situations where accuracy is important, it's usually because the part has to fit in with something else and I sneak up on those measurements.

Papa,

Yeah I do much the same as you. I work in both imperial and metric. Depends on whats on the plans and some times which measure is nearest.

Does that make me a 'picky old bastard' too.

Would be a nice club to belong to...... Picky Old Bastards Club.

When doing our kitchen renovation I used one of those electronic measuring jiggers and it was great geting all the sizes needed but the problem arose when you have a lenght of timber and go to use the trusty tape measure everthing was coming up short.

Realised that the little tab on the tape is loose for a reason so reverted back to using the tape measure and no problems.

Also found that you have to use one tape for the complete job because if you use your mates tape at the same time there can be differences, no good him measuring and you cutting, use the one tape for all applications.

I suppose it's a bit academic to talk about the technical difference between 'accuracy' & 'precision' but it has already been alluded to above, and it is important to understand the concepts, I think. Whether 4 table legs meant to be 750mm are dead accurate to that measurement or 750.5mm is irrelevant as long as they are all the same, or within a % or less of each other (precision). If a dressing table is 1 metre long exactly or 1005mm is going to be neither here nor there in the grand sheme of things, as long as all the rest of the bits fit & joints are sound.

If you are making a cupboard to fit in a defined spot at a remote location, you need accurate measurements of the space (to a degree appropriate to the job). Tape measures have always done the job for me, whether they are accurate to fractions of a mm or not - as already pointed out, if you use the same tape it rarely matters.

Precision is what you need when fitting parts together, in which case, use whatever method/measuring device you find works well for you. I use calipers a lot for turning, for instance, though I may not read the exact measurement - just make sure the diameters are consistent. For most of the woodworking I do, it's a matter of transferring dimensions from one part to the next, with actual measurement of an accurate length occurring only occasionally.

For most jobs we are looking primarily for a precise fit, and repetition of important dimensions. I use a tape-measure, steel ruler or a story-stick or whatever is to hand & appropriate to get initial measurements, then to make sure all parts that are supposed to be the same are the same, stop-blocks on the saw, marking gauges, or mark off the part to be fitted (dovetails, etc.) from there on... Use a knife for fine lines where it matters, & pencil lines where it's less important ('cos they're easier for my ageing eyes to see!). A half mm is .020 inches and I certainly can't measure that consistently with a ruler, yet we have to get joints to fit with closer tolerances than that - I do that by 'sneaking up' on initial measurements, through paring, planing, filing, etc.

Cheers,

Tape for the rough stuff, steel rules 1000, 600, 300 & 150 mm, Verniers (digital 150mm + 300, 250 & 150 mm Stainless steel) for thickness, Dial Indicator and set up blocks for machinery set up, squares and protractors for angles, Marking Knife, Awl, Mechanical Pencil, Pencil, Marking Pens, Chalk etc depending on the accuracy required.

I still belong to the close enough is good enough school of Woodworking

How you measure is up to you and is an individual idiocyncracy.

On my first project or two I was proud that I worked to 1-1.5mm (and often missed it). Lately I've been thinking of a story my brother told me from his school days in PE classes. His teacher told the class to throw tennis balls at the door of the room they were in, the balls went everywhere, he then told the class to aim for the door handle not the door, accuracy improved greatly. The teacher said "aim for the door, miss by the door...."

Ben.

I use a tape measure mostly, but prefer ones that have both Imperial and Metric. I'll use whatever unit happens to line up! Within 1/8" or 3mm is acceptable to me on a lot of stuff I make, especially on diagonals. Angles, as Joe says, can be pretty obvious to the trained eye.
I do use 300 and 150mm steel rules for certain jobs, but my eyes are no longer up to reading 1/2mm. And I have digital readout vernier calipers for accurate work, and use them on the thicknesser too.

With some work that I do, more creative stuff, I don't always measure, its whatever looks right, or I have the material for. (ie. material on hand dictates the dimensions) If there multiples to cut or shape I'll simply mark the others out from the first.

I fail to see how people can get their nose put out of joint over this issue, its whatever technique suits the application! If you're in a job that works to thou of an inch tolerances, you can't use a tape measure and expect to produce the goods, whereas a chippie might be happy to get a room square within 10-20mm .Horses for courses.

Cheers,