Thread: Mini Workbench - Suggestions for joinery please

You're not being deluged with suggestions, Ck!

I think which options you choose for joinery will be dictated by what you've done already, plus where you intend to end up. I would make the undercarriage as a separate unit & attached the top to that. With your I-beam legs, a 19mm dowel at each corner to sit the top on should work, and keep it as a two-piece for easier lifting & storage. For a bench-top bench, you have to strike a suitable compromise between sufficient weight & stiffness, and still being able to lift it on & off without busting a gut. You've alluded to a bit of back worry, so separate legs & top would help.

I started out to make one of these a few years ago & got totally carried away - by the time I added all the bits I thought it had to have, it was much bigger than I initially planned, & too heavy for me to lift onto my bench without blowing a gasket! So it grew legs & has become a handy little side-bench. I made it higher than the main bench so I can use the 'moxon' vise for dovetailng (after clearing off the 50Kg of scraps & junk that gravitates to any vacant flat surface). It's also a very handy 'portable' bench.

Looking at where you are, I'd suggest you join up the two parts of the undercarriage as a single unit. I'd use mortise & tenon for the stretchers, but you could use long bolts into barrel bolts so it could be knocked-down for storage or transport. It would only need a single stretcher at the top, which would give you front clamping opportunities.

I think you managed that sliding dovetail pretty well - making a big one like that in hard wood is not for the faint-hearted! It should hold up well - I've found that even a roughly-made joint will hold solidly as long as there's a few tight sections along the length. If it was firm enough that you had to tap it on, it should be fine. If it does show any tendency to slide out of line, put a 10mm dowel through the centre, that will keep it in place without preventing seasonal movement.

Cheers,

What about through tenons with wedges? Easy to knock down and keep tight..

Thanks Ian, some good food for thought.

In the meantime I progressed with the build. I definitely still have to have more practice using the hand tools. But that is the hole point of this project anyway. That's where it is at now. Only the I beam supports are glued up.

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I also decided to use tenons for the stretchers. Not glued up yet. They are not as tight as I wanted and I probably have to use epoxy and pins to connect them well. One mortise broke out when I went on it. So I had to cut a strip off and glue a new one on. Still waiting for the glue to dry there.

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I am not very good in chiseling straight and precise. These rectangular holes in the supports still need work and probably also some kind of masking and fixing. That's for sure I will also learn more about fixing and masking mistakes

For the back jaw of the front vise I am using a tongue and groove / tenon sort of design. I left a longer tongue in the middle to allow pins to be driven in. On the sides I probably end up with screws in over sized holes to allow for movement.

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I like your suggestion to make the top removable. The current design asks for screws, but I can still change that. Although my workbench is fairly deep. nearly a meter and I am not using the whole depth a lot. So I had though of pushing the mini bench to the back when not in use and just need to pull it to the front when I need it. But if the top is not permanently fixed I can also make a second set of supports much lower and have then two different heights for the bench I can have it at.

By the way Ian, I forgot to mention that your mini bench is amazing. Mine will not be as nice as that. It will do it's job though.

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Originally Posted by russ57

What about through tenons with wedges? Easy to knock down and keep tight..

Good idea. But I think I am too far in the build for that. Would have probably needed a different design.

Something to consider for another project.

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Originally Posted by IanW

You're not being deluged with suggestions, Ck!
..........
I started out to make one of these a few years ago & got totally carried away - by the time I added all the bits I thought it had to have, it was much bigger than I initially planned, & too heavy for me to lift onto my bench without blowing a gasket!
......

I also saw your OP and deferred posting; it sounded so like me 40 years ago! What Ian did not say is that his evolving micro bench probably took five times longer to construct.

Before I start on on task I now spend a lot of time disigning the object and also designing how I will actually make it and assemmble it. This planning phase is critical, and my experience is that it is counterproductive to try to skimp. May I suggest that you stop work now, plan what you are going to build and plan how you will do it, draw accurate templates and then restart?


A Little Story

A few years ago we were being tourists in the Palace of Versailles and I, much to my wife's annoyance, sat for over an hour in front of Marie Antoinette's jewel box. It is rather large - from memory about 2 x 1 x 0.5 metres sitting on a stand 1 m high. It is very elaborate, richly carved, lots of drawers, doors and hidey-holes, inlaying, enamelling, gilding, etc, etc. Absolutely over the top.

But I was fascinated. How did they make it? Were there ten or twenty crafts (and craftsmen) involved? How was it conceived, documented, planned, managed, constructed and assembled? Then one looked at the minutae - Task A had to be done before Task B, which had to be done before Task C, which had to be done before Task D, which had to be done before Task E, which had to be done before Task A. Nope, that didn't work, try another algorithm....

Never did work out how they did it.

Thanks Graeme

That is good advice. This started as a fun project and I wanted to see where it takes me. But maybe I could have better tried to think a few details through first. And normally I do make plans and sketches for my projects. Well we learn and I still am enjoying it.
My project after this will definately have more pre-planing. Then I want to build a saw bench. But that is for another thread.

In regard to you staring at a piece and trying to figure out how they did it I can fully relate to. On our last holiday we went to London and I also spent quite some time staring at a Desk from George IV. It had heaps of secret compartments and was fascinating.

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Ok, yesterday was a frustrating day and I wasn't even sure if I wanted to post the progress. I did something which made me feel like the worlds biggest idiot.
This project is not meant to be absolutely perfect and is mainly meant to try out different things and get practice in this whole hand tool thing. Until a bit more than a year ago I did not do much with hand tools and most of the time since I spent restoring old tools. Now I want to learn how to use them.

And therefore I am ok if the joints are not perfect. It is not going into my living room. But what I did here makes me really feel stupid and I am still kicking myself. I had all the tenon joints prepared between the stretcher and the legs. They were a bit loose and so I decided to epoxy them in. I masked of all the areas around the joints to not smear epoxy everywhere. I applied the epoxy and clamped it all up and went away.

After 3 hours I came back to check and to remove the masking tape and that is when it hit me. Not did I only mask of the areas around the joints. I also masked the faces around the mortises where the shoulders of the tenons will meet. Now I have masking tape between the leg and the stretcher forming a thin gap with some blue in it. It was too late as the epoxy had already set.


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I was kicking myself for the whole night and the better part of yesterday. I was not sure if I actually wanted to go on as I felt this was really really stupid. Did I already say that? and embarrassing, but maybe someone has done similar experiences. I hope I am not alone.

Anyway after a time of frustration I found my motivation again. In the end of the day it does not impair the function of the bench. I am sure the joints are still working as that part of the connection doesn't hold much strength. I also decided to leave it to remind me always of what mistakes are possible even if you do not think they can.

I then went ahead and fitted the top to the base with a bunch of 10mm dowels. Even without screwing it together the connection with the dowels feels pretty sturdy and I will keep it that way like Ian suggested. I can always add screws later on.

So I am now working on the front vice. Already for some tasks there I used the bench as it is and it does feel workable. So I came to terms with my result and am ready to move on.

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I think fine blue lines around tenon shoulders could look quite snazzy - you might've started a whole new trend with this!

Just remember, the person who never made any mistakes never made anything. I made my share of silly mistakes when I began, & I've kept up the good work ever since. My most recent was just last week, due to not taking my own good advice - how dumb is that? It's nothing to do with benches, so I won't hijack this thread - I'll fess up in the hand-tool section when I get around to posting on it...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Cklett

Ok, yesterday was a frustrating day and I wasn't even sure if I wanted to post the progress. I did something which made me feel like the worlds biggest idiot........

Welcome to the WWW - the Wonderful World of Woodwork. All of us, without exception, have made many, many mistakes, most smallish, some monumental. The real skill is in planning and executing your next step.

In your case, the best option is probably to do nothing. If any one ever mentions the thin blue line (unlikely) you might mention something about a design feature and you are not yet sure whether it works or not. Little is irretrievable.

A couple of years ago, Neil, this Forums patron, changed the title of one of the subforums from "Big Stuff" to a more descriptive "Furniture, Joinery, Cabinetmaking." I mused about suggesting that he revieve the original title as "Big Stuff-Ups" where we could air our dirty linen. Then I thought about what I could contribute - such a long list - and decided to stay mute!

What you’ve done is artfully prepare your workpiece for further beautificationism and personal craft-upskillingfercation as you now get to have a crack at inlaying!

A small ‘lectric router or laminate trimmer if you have one, or a router plane (and a sharp marking knife for cross-grain) or just a chisel and a staight-edge. Any dark-ish timber will do, and you can decide whether to inlay just a thin cosmetic veneer or a square cross section of solid timber.

Veritas make an inlay attachment for their router plane, it’s on my wishlist...

Hey Chief, that's brilliant. Off course now my brain is working on how to do it and what design to use sparked my creativity ;-)

Thanks. Let's see what I come up with....

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I have my own thin blue line moment when I made a serving try for my mum a few years ago, I used some blue tape to protect some finished surfaces just before the final glue up and I failed to notice that the tape was over the line I had marked until I took it out of the clamps the next day. Its the curse of anyone who makes things, all you can see is what you did wrong not what you did right!

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Yeah, I can agree to that. I think the one who makes it is always more aware of the flaws or better said perceived flaws. We are more critical of our work than others.
I made it a habit not to critique my work to others and let them be the judge. Except here on the forum where maybe others can learn and I can get advise how to fix or prevent mistakes.
Otherwise I leave to others to tell me if they like my work or not.

By the way that tray looks great! I like it.