Thread: Is my neighbour an idiot or am i??

Actually, you both are.

No, just kidding. Your neighbour's technique sounds like it falls into the "sharp but not smooth" category- Derek explained this somewhere,but I'm going to bed in a minute, so you'll have to find it yourself. (Try Best of the Best)...

Anyway, grinding can produce a very sharp serrated edge, which (after stropping, as you mentioned) can cut but does not leave a fine finish. That's the theory, or something like it, perhaps someone else can, um, what's the word? Elucidate? Expound? Expand? Add their two cents.

(What do I know anyway? My bloody planes wouldn't cut butter.)

Let us know what you find out.

Regards,
Rusty.

Originally Posted by joseph84

My neighbour reckons when sharpening a chisel or say a plane blade there is no need to use a stone to produce the secondary bevel on the blade. His way is once the blade is grinded down on the machine, alter the angle of the fence by say a couple of degrees and grind the tip of the blade. This then produces a secondary bevel and looks as though it has been done on the stone but looks much better and neater. He then took off the bur and the back of the blade by rubbing it on some timber. I kind of laughed when i saw him do this, is he losing his marbles or have i just learned something new?

Did you try it? Maybe his way is better, maybe your way is. But the proof is in using the blade, not how quick or long it takes to sharpen it.

Personally, I have my doubts about his method, but try his blade against yours & let us know the results

ticky

Hi Ticky,

yes i have tried his way and i must say does preduce a very nice even finish. However when you run your finger on top of the blade it does feel a bit serrated, but testing it out on a piece of timber it was as sharp as a razor.

If you look at the edge with a X10 eye loupe, you'll see that it will be rough. A plane blade done like this will be sharp, like a bread knife is, and will not leave that silky surface. OK for a jack maybe. BOttom line is, try it but stick with what suits you.

Originally Posted by joseph84

My neighbour reckons when sharpening a chisel or say a plane blade there is no need to use a stone to produce the secondary bevel on the blade. His way is once the blade is grinded down on the machine, alter the angle of the fence by say a couple of degrees and grind the tip of the blade. This then produces a secondary bevel and looks as though it has been done on the stone but looks much better and neater. He then took off the bur and the back of the blade by rubbing it on some timber. I kind of laughed when i saw him do this, is he losing his marbles or have i just learned something new?

Everyone has different opinions and requirements, if it suits him or you then go for it.
For what I use planes and chisels for, my reaction to the idea is

I used to sharpen like that.

Did it for years. Then I discovered that my garden spades would remove more wood more accurately for longer.

I also didn't have the strength to push the plane most of the time.

I'm not a fanatic, and am a lazy sharpener, but I now do things with planes that used to take a belt sander.

Currently,for instance the canoe panels. Cut about 3mm wide of the line, then plane down the edge of plywood. After about 25 lineal metres the plane could do with a touch up, previously I'd chip it out with the plane to a mm or two and sand the rest.

Your neighbour isn't crazy, he just hasn't used a finely sharpened tool.

P

i've used a belt sander in the past to quickly sharpen chisels using the same technique of sanding it & then tilting to produce the bevel
works ok but if you want more precise chiseling then you're much better off to use a stone

So expand a bit on this for me 'cos I know very little aout this stuff.

Does this mean joseph's neighbor will still have to sand his timber after planing and joseph doesn't have to. I am assuming a very smooth blade wll reduce or eliminate the need to sand where a rougher blade won't.

he'll still have to sand it just not as much as the neighbour
a properly sharpened blade will slice the timber whereas a blunt or incorrectly sharpened one will just rip & tear at the timber which most times goes beyond where you want your cut to finish.
when i was an apprentice we were taught that if the blade is sharpened correctly you can shave the hairs on your arm with it

Originally Posted by reybec

when i was an apprentice we were taught that if the blade is sharpened correctly you can shave the hairs on your arm with it

I'll be the first of many to jump in here with: "shave-ability isn't necessarily equatable with absolute sharpness"
Take a hand lens to the average safety-razor blade.
I wouldn't dream of trying to use an edge like that in anything meant to work wood. A finely-honed edge will certainly shave, but leaves a silky surface on (most) woods and will last many times longer than a serrated edge.

Like Midge, the older and weaker I get, the better my sharpening technique has to be. A few minutes spent honing after grinding saves a lot of sweat!!
Cheers,

I don't use planes, but I keep two seperate sets of chisels.

One set is used mainly for nocking out floorplates and studs when framing houses and they're normally sharpened on a belt sander. The other set is used for fine joinery and are honed on stones.

The latter benefits from the stone, in the former case it'd be a waste of time & effort...

Originally Posted by Rookie

Does this mean joseph's neighbor will still have to sand his timber after planing and joseph doesn't have to. I am assuming a very smooth blade wll reduce or eliminate the need to sand where a rougher blade won't.

I plane everything with a smoother freshly honed and set as fine as possible.

All the sanding I need to do is a quick hand rub with say, 800 or 1200 W&D to give you a surface as smooth as a baby's bum. Thats for oil finishes though, which are more forgiving of little imperfections.

Learn how to use a scraper as well as soothers and you can cut out all sanding.

For 90% of the work I do the only bit of paper I use is the 1200 grit I use to knock off the raised grain lifted by shellac sanding sealer. The smoothing is done by a variety of hand planes and scrapers. Better finish and cheaper than sanding.

I can't be bothered with all this sharpening stuff any longer - now I just wipe the blades along the cement kerb. That'll do until I bring out the belt sander.

Oh, it's too early for April 1?

Joseph, my answer is that it depends on what your neighbour plans to do with the blade. Chisels are not as critical as plane blades, unless you want a smooth surface, and scrub and jack plane blades are not as critical either. You can get away with a serrated edge. On the other hand, if you are working with hardwoods then you would likely want to slice through the timber more easily, and a serrated edge is going to catch and stick, where a smooth edge will part the timber more cleanly and, thus, with less effort.

Regards from Perth

Derek