Thread: pergola help

Doog, I am no Builder, but as no one else has answed your question.
I'll give it a go.
Pehaps a couple of pics or diagrams may invoke a greater responce.

Firstly, I am assuming that when you say "pergola", you will be leaving the top open or maybe a shade cloth cover only.

While the following method would likely hold a roof up ok, it may not hold it down, depending on the wind loads in your area.

Fixing it to your house may not be as difficult as you think. In SA, most houses are double brick or brick vaneer. Most new houses have a facia made from about 1.6mm sheet metal, (& it may even be thinner), & that is nailed into the end grain of the rafters with a couple of Galv clouts.

Most hardware stores sell very thin galv saddles in a couple of standard sizes, the support the beams of your pergola by being pop-riveted with about 3 pop-rivets on each side of the saddle into the House facia. once the pergola beams are set in the saddles, they are held in place with a galv clout on each side.

In your case, you could screw these to your house facia or through the weather board & into the frame studs, but use galv, stainless or brass screws.

Wen I build my pergola, I had to fabricate my saddles due to my pergola design, but I used exactly the same principle & slightly thicker material (because I am a boiler-maker, not a friggin watch-maker), but they were attached to the tin facia with 3 rivers on each side. When I laid my shade cloth, I was walking all over the structure. Solid as a rock.

Hope this helps you mate.

steve

Thanks for the reply Ticky, i made a drawing but its more than the limit (100kb) and won't upload :mad:


What i want to do is; atatch the verandah/ pergola to the reer of the house
though the weatherboards and to the existing studs.

Anyone know if this is generally ok?

Or is it a compleate NO NO

Originally Posted by doog

What i want to do is; atatch the verandah/ pergola to the reer of the house
though the weatherboards and to the existing studs.

Yes that's no problem at all, just attach your ledger to the studs with coach screws.

Doog,

I actually replied yesterday but thanks to the miracle of the modern internet, it seems my reply sort of zoomed off into nowhere!

What you are doing is fine, in fact it's pretty much the best solution. Don't forget to prime all the timber before assembling it though, specially the bits that will never see the light of day again.

Glad you didn't try to just hang it off the fascia, that's a disaster waiting to happen!

Cheers,

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Glad you didn't try to just hang it off the fascia, that's a disaster waiting to happen!

In a lot of situations the only option is to attach to fascia, bit of planning and forethought will give good results.

Originally Posted by ThePope

In a lot of situations the only option is to attach to fascia, bit of planning and forethought will give good results.

Forethought and planning in this instance means at the least, bolting stiffeners to the rafter tails so they can take the additional load, and fixing through the fascias into blocks securely fixed between two rafters.

(Just so no-one goes away and skew nails into a fascia without doing anything else).

cheers,

P

perhaps, perhaps not...

Depends entirely what your attaching to said fascia, overkill for the 'typical pergola' doesn't result in too many quotes being accepted. But there's nothing wrong with going that way if doing it yourself and time and labour aren't a consideration.

Thanks guys

One other thing, i have been given some 90x90 cypress posts upto about 1.8 mts long (not long enoug for under my main beam, as i need 2.3 mt posts.)

But i wanted to use the smaller as my middle posts (to shorten the hand rail span)

Would the short posts be stable enough, if set on post supports?

Or would i be better concreting them directly into the concrete slab for more stability?

As some would be end posts at openings.

Regards, doog.

Originally Posted by ThePope

Depends entirely what your attaching to said fascia, overkill for the 'typical pergola' doesn't result in too many quotes being accepted. But there's nothing wrong with going that way if doing it yourself and time and labour aren't a consideration.

Now this is where the argument gets serious!!

This isn't about quotes being accepted, it's about doing things properly! :eek:

Skew nailing or triplegripping a pergola into a fascia which has been nailed into the end of a rafter overhang, designed to hold up a 600 cantilever roof load IS NOT an acceptable solution, EVEN IF it's the cheapest quote!!

For crying out loud!

Doog,

Don't under any circumstance set your posts directly in concrete! The concrete will shrink away minutely, leaving a neat crack for water and stuff to start the rot, just where you'd prefer not to have it!

Set properly in brackets the mid-supports will be fine, although you may think about using a neater bracket solution, something like a pipe which can fit concealed completely inside the post, or a galvanised cleat which fits in a slot? (won't win a tender I suppose, but it'll look good! )

P (maybe I just don't have a copy of the Code for bodgy chippies!)

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

it's about doing things properly

yes it is, and on any given job there are many different ways of doing so.

btw: you want to review your last comment.

Originally Posted by doog

Thanks for the reply Ticky, i made a drawing but its more than the limit (100kb) and won't upload :mad:


What i want to do is; atatch the verandah/ pergola to the reer of the house
though the weatherboards and to the existing studs.

Anyone know if this is generally ok?

Or is it a compleate NO NO

Doog, play it safe & take your sketch or plan to your local Building inspector. The rules are different in different areas, & while there are currently 2 very different opinions in this thread, I would not be surprised if they both agreed if they saw your drawings & were aware of all the factors involved.

While I will not argue the point with somebody who for all I know is a builder, I will say that the method I described to you has been up for 15 years, but as I said in my first post, I am not a builder. (I'm not a plumber either, but that didn't stop me installing our new vanity on the weekend)

Steve

Sorry to hijack the thread but i am going to be building something very similar...but i have 100mm concrete paths around my house so i was wondering for the posts...would it be ok to dynabolt stirrips to the concrete then attach the posts to the stirrups?

readie

Originally Posted by ThePope

yes it is, and on any given job there are many different ways of doing so.

btw: you want to review your last comment.

OK, I've reviewed it.

No offense intended, but by golly I wanted to make a point.

Ticky, you were lucky and have no doubt achieved a very satisfactory job, and so have been a few thousand others who have done the same thing, but that doesn't make the practise safe or commendable.

While there is clearly nothing wrong with your particular job, the fact remains that pressed metal fascias are not designed to carry loads of any kind, neither are standard timber ones.

Why do you think they don't make structural beams out of 19mm softwood, or fix them with two inch nails?

Rafter tails are generally not designed to carry those cantilever loads either, they may do so as a result of other factors, but should be checked before attaching anything.

If you can get away with it without proper fixings or support, good luck to you, just don't go recommending it to others who may not have been so fortunate in the construction stakes.

I only know of one serious accident that has occured after someone fitted a childs swing to a pergola built that way, but hey.....

I have explained one correct way, of making this connection in the post above, there are other more complicated ways.

The Pope's insinuation that it's ok just to fix to a fascia is simply incorrect advice, and has the potential to put people in danger. (Not every chippie is as diligent as no doubt he is in fixing fascias, and building oversized rafters to take future loads.)

I know how Christopha felt a few months ago when he had his dummy spit in this forum!

Pope, I'd be really happy for you to explain your methods for building safe legal connections economically, rather than just implying I'm wrong!

How do you check the fascia isn't just held on with the last half inch of a two inch nail? Surely you've seen rafters cut so far off line that there's a half inch gap to the fascia?

How can you recommend a direct fixing for a metal fascia that's held on with a few clips and a couple of clouts?

Please elaborate.

Cheers,

P (None of this affects you doog as you are wisely fixing directly to the studs! )

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

OK, I've reviewed it.

No offense intended, but by golly I wanted to make a point.

Well Midge, I think we can safely say that you have indeed made you point,

As I said in my first post, I am not a builder. Truth is, I'm not even a particularly good woodworker, but I enjoy my wood work, I enjoy this FRIENDLY forum & when I have a question I ask, but on the rear occasion that I have an answer, I give. I clearly pointed out that I am not a builder before telling of my experiance, to a new member with an unanswered question.

I don't mind being told there is a better way to do this, butIfear poor old Doog may not be game enough to ask any more questions after the carry on in this thread.

Doog, this Forum is full of friendly banter so I hope that your 4th post is a little more fun & a little less rightous. I have little doubt that Midge is correct & as I said earlier, I suspect the Pope would also give you the good oil if you were able to load your drawings. I don't know Jack ##### (although I have read his family history), but I do know my pergola is still standing rock solid.

As for Readniks question, I would think that 100mm is not really thick enough, BUT I am not qualified to say.

Keep smiling boys & treat every day as though it is your last... One day you are sure to be right.