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  1. #1
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    Default Potential Liability??

    Got a mate who is paraplegic. But wow he is fit. in fact he competes at international level in hand cycling.

    His wife just bought him a second hand spa and of course his problem is how to get in it easily. So he asked me over Monday to help (gets me to build stuff, like his rowing machine now fixed vertically to his man cave wall.

    So what he wants is a platform 40 cm off the ground, 1 metre square, and a ramp 1.1 metres long. Now being an accountant I quickly worked out that is steeper than a 1 in 3 slope.

    Question is, does anyone have an opinion as to liability when doing this kind of thing. I kind of figure that being a love job, and me not ever charging for anything i do, it's his entirely. But just in case I'm entirely wrong..........

    (And yes, he can push his wheelchair up that slope, no trouble at all.)

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  3. #2
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    Hi Bob.

    Firstly great to hear of your doings for this family.

    My worries being a wheelie myself is not getting that ramp when dry but getting down when wet the ramp as well as the user. Wheelchairs are ARPIA to stop when wet brakes, wet hands and wet slippery floor surface.

    40cm doesn't sound to bad if its not already installed maybe digging out the area its going into and lowering that down by even 100mm or 200mm might be a better idea to reduce the ramp required. As the surrounding walk/roll area around the spar at 40cm then puts him at a further 50cm high bodily thats one heck of a fall 90cm+.

    All the material I have read re doing volunteer work has clauses covering such BUT that doesn't mean to say legal eagles can't find loop holes even if waivers are signed.

    Ray

  4. #3
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    Bob,
    I would say you have a duty of care.
    But this is really something I have. No idea about.
    It's a shame we have to think like this when helping people out.

    Cheers Matt

  5. #4
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    Thanks Ray. I should at least talk to him about that 'getting back down' issue.

    He's a real larriken, when i was over there, he and another wheelie mate were sharing stories of wheelchair diving - good grief.

  6. #5
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    Bob, if he is a mate of yours you can be upfront and honest with him and list the concerns you have regarding wet surfaces etc and work through all issues together and get a very clear list of outcomes.

    As far as the construction goes i would just make sure i over engineered it.

  7. #6
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    Yes double.d, got a bunch of 2x4's at 1.2 m to start with. thinking to not just butt join, but lap and glue with bugle screws to boot. 17mm construction ply is cheap and rougher surface than marine. I know water will degrade it eventually but can be replaced. Will check Bunnings to see what high friction stuff they might have to go on the slope, water of course being a complication; high friction when dry can be slippery as... when wet. Might discuss with him some slight ribbing on that part??

  8. #7
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    I would also look at using an anti slip coating or strips on the wood.
    eg https://www.bunnings.com.au/croc-gri...-pack_p3961685
    If you want to go fully DIY I have made anti slip strips from a large used 40g sanding belt and epoxied these to stair edges

    Poolside antislip paints are another option.

    There are are also additives that can be added to paints to reduce slippage.
    eg https://www.bunnings.com.au/crommeli...itive_p1560275

    .

  9. #8
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    A few years ago I made a ramp to help my small dogs get up an area where stairs used to be. I had originally just used formply, but when it was wet they couldn't get up. So I ended up sanding the top back, and then painting it with an outdoor paint, and pouring sand on it. I think i did about two coats. It worked really well actually. For something harder wearing, I would probably use epoxy though.

  10. #9
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    Excellent feedback there, especially epoxy (have just bought some 2 part Techniglue) and the 40 grit sanding belts.

    HEaps of thanks, will talk to my mate about it all.

  11. #10
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    There are Australian Standards for pedestrian landings, ramps, stairs, walkways and also for disability access standards in the Building Code of Australia (BCA). These were reviewed in 2014 to incorporate amendments for grades of ramps, slip resistance.

    If you go ahead, you should check that anything you build as a paid worker or unpaid volunteer complies with the AS & BCA requirements, and that the materials you use also have a certificate of compliance from the manufacturer.

    Go to Disability Access Consultants Melbourne Servicing Australia then search "new bca slip resistance requirements"
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  12. #11
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    Hi Bob

    that's very good advice from Mobyturns re standards.

    What I'll add in respect to liability -- if all you bring to the task is "thumb in bum mind in neutral" labour, your liability is less than it would be if you could be deemed "knowledgeable" or "experienced" or "qualified" . However, as an accountant you might be deemed sufficiently knowledgeable (or educated) that you should have sought advice.

    With that out of the way, a very big GOOD ON YOU for helping out a mobility impaired person.

    I'm sure your friend is highly capable and very mobile and would not find a 1 in 3 ramp much of a challenge, BUT you need to expand their design to include considerations of others -- that's were the disability access standards come in. Any ramp or platform you build needs to meet both your friend's needs and also be "safe" for other people. Typically it's the "other people" that will cause any grief that might arise.

    at a minimum, I'd incorporate toe kicks on the edges of the platform or ramp. The toe kicks will make it harder to accidentally wheel or push a chair off the platform and ramp.

    A good place for anti-slip coatings is a ships' chandler -- grip on wet surfaces is bread and butter business for them.

    Water resistance or water proofing -- compressed fiber cement is IMO a better choice than ply. It can be cut neatly with either a diamond blade in an angle grinder or a building materials blade in a regular power saw. Please remember that dust collection / PPE is a must when cutting the stuff. Sheet thickness is a function of the support spacing -- supports at 300 mm centers allows you to use a much thinner sheet than supports at 1200 centers would. My suggestion would be to space the supports at 450 centers.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  13. #12
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    I have built some handicapped ramps in the past, and the standard calls for 1:14 from memory (might even be 1:15). Sounds like a lot, but when you see steeper ramps you realise why.
    He's young and fit now, but what about in 10 years?
    How about when his hand slips off the wheel and he loses control just as he is coming down? etc etc.
    Don't want to be a downer, but you have to be realistic. On the other hand, that stuff will probably never happen...so.

  14. #13
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    Hi Bob

    Ship chandlers sell self-adhesive non-slip tape of various widths that yachties stick on slippery fiberglass decks. That stuff sticks like the proverbial and lasts a very long time, exposed to the sun and elements.

    Yvan

  15. #14
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    You can get non slip self adhesive tape from Bunnings, for use with stair treads etc.

    Keith

  16. #15
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    Do we have to think outside the circle here? A hydraulic lift platform or a rope with a pully and a handle hitched up above the edge of the spa so he can swing his way in because he seems to have great upper body strength.

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