Thread: A question of style - some ideas please!

Steve

When I have your dillema, I Google the commercial manufacturers' sites and have a look at their designs. Usually one can find dozens of examples of the piece you wish to create.

Having done my research, I then meld the appealing designs, add a little originality, and then proceed to create a complete clusterf#$k.

I would suggest you omit the final chapter.

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

My two questions are these:

WRT the server, would it be better to inset the aprons from the legs by, say 2 ~ 3mm, or leave them flush?

I vote for inset aprons.

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

Also on the server, but would apply to the buffet as well: would it be more elegant to under chamfer the underside of the top to make a thinner face edge, or to do the same but from the top surface? My thinking at present is to do the undercut as this will leave a flat top surface.

Steve, this can be very subjective but my opinion, FWIW, is that the chamfer under the top would look wrong and draw the eye under the table, instead of onto and around the top. The best compromise may be to slightly round over both the top and bottom edges, evenly (maybe a mil more on top).

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

One other thought: the timber, supposedly Blackwood, has in many boards the look of another species altogether - tell me I'm wrong! Please! (see attached)

Looks like tas oak with pine on the breadboard end to me. Hard to tell unless you can see and touch, also I am far from an expert at wood recognition.

Hi Steve,

1. I vote for insets also.

2. I think the underchamfer would look better, but with rounding slightly atop. What about a 22 degree chamfer to give elegance and depth?

3. The timber is hard to pick, I think if you retake the pic without the flash it would give more of an idea of grain. Don't recall seeing that kind of what appears to be tearout on the blackwood I've worked, but I have worked with Blackwood that had the same apparent grain and colour, its disconcerting when its so light and the grain doesn't give the contrast you expect.
These are both Blackwood made at the same time.

Regards

Rob

Steve im centering all the panels and aprons useing you know what, and then dropping the setting on the legs or carcase sides by 2mm on the plastic slide. Looks soooooo good a perfect 2mm shadow line. Subtle and dosnt stick out to much. Anything over 5mm looks overbearing and common.

I think its a good idea to standardise the way you use all the settings on the you know who, so it makes it easier NOT to make basic mistakes and to also develope a "Steve Style" that your new clients will come to reconise

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

WRT the server, would it be better to inset the aprons from the legs by, say 2 ~ 3mm, or leave them flush?!

I'd go for the inset, as IMHO it looks better. (Edited after looking at the photo) 2mm should be fine.

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

Also on the server, but would apply to the buffet as well: would it be more elegant to under chamfer the underside of the top to make a thinner face edge, or to do the same but from the top surface? My thinking at present is to do the undercut as this will leave a flat top surface.!

I put a chamfer underneath the tops of most of my furniture. It lightens up the appearance of the top.

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

One other thought: the timber, supposedly Blackwood, has in many boards the look of another species altogether - tell me I'm wrong! Please! (see attached)
Cheers!

The colour of blackwood can vary enormously, as can the appearance of the grain. You can either attampt to stain the lighter pieces to match the darker, with the risk that you wont get it right, or leave them as they are & mix them up, which is probably what I'd do. If you really need to darken some pieces (but not necessarily match them) check out the Polishers' Handbook from our host. I've had some success darkening blackwood slightly using hair dye.

Hi Steve...

I vote for inset aprons, gives a nice shadow line and helps to keep the legs distinct.

For the same reason I like under-bevelled tops. You know the deal-makes the top appear lighter, and can lend a light,floating feeling to the top. Sometimes its more effective when a darker timber is used for the top than the frame.

I don't like top bevels...they me off as my tumbler of scotch always manages to find the edge and tip into the abyss.

As for the variation in boards: A mate collected a half pack down at the docks last week. The four blackwood boards were a disappointment-they ranged from almost black walnut to blonde tassie oak.

Can't really comment on the design elements, as I've no idea of the overall picture you have in mind. Apart from saying that I prefer inset aprons and an undercut chamfer does, generally, add a degree of elegance. Not much help there, eh?

But tell me you're joking about the wood and that you did add a bit of radiata to the piece just to test our perception! It's not really fixed there... is it? :eek:

Originally Posted by Flowboy

Hi Steve,

1. I vote for insets also.

2. I think the underchamfer would look better, but with rounding slightly atop. What about a 22 degree chamfer to give elegance and depth?

3. The timber is hard to pick, I think if you retake the pic without the flash it would give more of an idea of grain. Don't recall seeing that kind of what appears to be tearout on the blackwood I've worked, but I have worked with Blackwood that had the same apparent grain and colour, its disconcerting when its so light and the grain doesn't give the contrast you expect.
These are both Blackwood made at the same time.

Regards

Rob

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your response. The timber that I've purchased for this commission looks very like the box on the left in your picture.

I've attached a pic that has one sample of Blackwood that I bought some time ago to the left. It's held up against one of the server's legs for contrast. They really look quite different.

I'm hoping that the customer won't be disappointed as this was the sample that I showed him

Originally Posted by Lignum

Steve im centering all the panels and aprons useing you know what, and then dropping the setting on the legs or carcase sides by 2mm on the plastic slide. Looks soooooo good a perfect 2mm shadow line. Subtle and dosnt stick out to much. Anything over 5mm looks overbearing and common.

I think its a good idea to standardise the way you use all the settings on the you know who, so it makes it easier NOT to make basic mistakes and to also develope a "Steve Style" that your new clients will come to reconise

Thanks for that!

I've thought about the flush versus inset, and after discussing it with the client have elected to go with a +/- 2mm inset. I'll use your method with a little application of black and lime

I'll make notes on what I do in my new shop notebook

BTW: Ordinarily I'd put on lower stretcher rails, but am wondering if I can forgo this because of the "no twist" properties of, Ahem! her? The leg dimensions are 1/3rd of a poofteenth less than 40x40mm under the top, and the taper, beginning at the bottom of the apron lower edges, leading down to 40x30 at the foot (only the two inner leg faces are tapered). Given that the apron is 60mm high, and I'll be using two *ominoe$ on each leg/apron interface, will this result in a sufficiently sturdy table?

Personally I like the look of flush aprons and a chamfered bottom - clean, modern style - but it all depends on your other design elements.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

But tell me you're joking about the wood and that you did add a bit of radiata to the piece just to test our perception! It's not really fixed there... is it? :eek:

Hi Skew!

No kidding - thus the Q!

All the timber is from the same lot delivered from A. Lewis & Co.

Nothing is fixed as yet apart from the top's two boards and breadboard ends.

I know Blackwood can vary a bit, but must say I didn't expect to see what looks like some Bunnies Special:eek: there!

I think what you have there is silver wattle, often sold to Dills, as BlackWood.
My blackwood sourced from Tas is most definetly Black, ok dark brown.
But my stuff is no where as light in colour as the stuff in your picture.

On my last sorte to Tas I was informed that Silver Wattle is sold to Dills from the north Island as BW.

Al :mad:

insert aprons, by the 2 - 3 mm that you suggested, and under chamfer... this is what appeals to me.
If you have made a pine test piece, would it be worth having a play with a ogee instead of the chamfer? Depends on the overall style I guess.

Edit: Al might be on the $ about the Silver Wattle... looks like some stuff that I got in a sample pack. Decent stuff in its own right, some of it had nice and tight grain but some was force grown.

Originally Posted by gregoryq

Hi Steve...

I don't like top bevels...they me off as my tumbler of scotch always manages to find the edge and tip into the abyss.

As for the variation in boards: A mate collected a half pack down at the docks last week. The four blackwood boards were a disappointment-they ranged from almost black walnut to blonde tassie oak.

Hi Gregoryq!

at the scotch issue - given that the piece is to be a server, wouldn't want to have dinner sliding off (Although Simou probably would!)

I must say that the lot of timber is pretty variable. I can work with it, but it suffers (badly!) from tearout; planing the legs after rough cutting the inner faces' taper, sometimes I would have to plane from one direction on a given face to some point along its length then reverse planing direction - and this with a sharp LN bench plane :eek: