Thread: Quote advice please.

That is a difficult question, and it is hard to give a correct answer.

If you know 100% that there will be more orders, (how good is your crystal ball) I would consider it an investment, however as the order might be one off and the jigs unlikely to be used for anything else I would add a cost for making the jig.
Other business do this; think of the printing trade, there is a cost in set up after that the print run is easy.

Others might think differently.

Would it be possible for all the end plates to be made the same, and just alter the length?? The other alternative is to make the jig so that it will accept all the end plate lengths, so that you have an adjustable block for the width and the centre post remains in the same place.
If they want the crate to be theirs alone, meaning you can't use it for anyone else, then I'd charge them. If they allow you to use it for others, then it's yours, so you honestly couldn't charge for them. I don't normally charge for making the jigs, unless I end up spending a day doing one.
Kryn

Hi Kiwi75

I would amortize the cost of the jigs against the quantity of items you expect to produce.
Add a portion of the jig cost to each part for a given quantity, then after that you will have some extra profit to cover for jig maintenance etc.

Regards
Keith

I do this stuff all the time. i.e > once a week. I tend to do 2 or 3 jobs in a week - nothing too strenuous..... but quotes are always broken down into three parts: materials, time and jigs.

This is so clients can see their investments as distinct components. On a job that requires more than a one-off I always quote for the jig. The jig will be "theirs" and I use a descriptive language of the same. It isn't an implied threat or anything, but it shows Im a serious maker and I'm serious about what Im doing for them.

I wont reveal my real text as its part of my super-winning strategy, but it's something like this: "For your job to be completed with skill and exactitude, I spend time making a (series of) precision jig (s). This allows me to make multiple orders for you that are exactly the same - time after time. When you order more in the future, you can be assured the quality will be the same or better than your first order".

See what I did here? Im asking for more orders in the future as part of the very first quote. I've assumed it's already won (which I can be, as I'll offer a sharp quote). I'm building the relationship for more orders immediately. They will spend good money "buying" the jig and therefore know they can place additional orders as their own business sees fit and at a time that suits them. You also offer them exclusivity on the use of that jig.*

You can also spin it so it makes the next orders faster too... which of course they will be (as the first order allows you to work out all the kinks/bugs).

The jig is of course yours and quite useless to another maker, but they don't know that. If they ask for it, politely decline as its made "specifically to your setup".

This process allows you to worry less about the total price and more about the making.... you time... the materials... the jig.

If they want to lower the price then the only thing they can really attack is either with cheaper materials (which of course they are free to provide themselves!) or have you spend less time working on the output (so therefore it needs to be quicker i.e. lower quality). I NEVER amortise the jig. It is paid for up front.

The real power of this strategy is the retention of the client for repeat business.

Evan


* some clients kick back and want design exclusivity. I offer this for as long as they are clients. If I do design for them (i.e. real design) they either pay or acknowledge that I might sell it in some other modified manner at "a later date", but never while they remain a client.

I always recover any costs for ANYTHING pertaining to the job in the first order, regardless of statements like "yeah plenty more orders coming in the future". The other thing I'd mention too, is that treated pine you've used for the milk carriers in the photo? If so, I'd be using untreated timber for anything food or drink related........I know it's safe but from a perception point of view I'd err on the side of caution......

Originally Posted by Kiwi75

Have been asked to do a quote for a local fulla who makes chilli sauce. Late last year I made some milk crates for a lady who sells her own milk.
IMG_1329.jpg

He wants something along these lines but three different sizes. I need to make jigs for each of these, the question is, do I charge extra on the first order for the cost of making these or do I treat it more like an investment and not charge? Cheers Peeps, hope you all have a fantastic weekend.

1. you should charge for the jigs -- and separately itemize the cost (time and materials) to build the jigs.
2. if you can, design the "crates" so that they stack -- look at the Tanos Systainer for ideas https://produktprogramm.tanos.de/ind...=381&idcat=113
3. if you can, brand the crates with your maker's mark and the Chilli sauce maker's logo, name, etc. Something like "crate made by Kiwi75, contact details ..." or "custom crate for local fella's chilli sauce designed and made by Kiwi75"

a jig is only an investment if you know for sure that the cost will be recoverable on a second or third order.

The risk with bundling the cost of a jig into the first order is that the per item price may be so high that your customer goes looking for a cheaper supplier.
By separating out the costs of the jig, materials, and labour (time) you are allowing your customer choice.
Not happy paying for the jig -- "OK" you say, "but I'll have to increase my build time by x hours (or dollars) per unit"
Not happy with the material cost -- "OK" you say, "if I use rough sawn timber the cost will be x dollars less, but we could use more expensive timber and make the crates 'gift wrap' ready."

you get the idea

Yeah it is treated but the lady supplied the timber so...... I'd concider this pretty safe as the milk is in sealed glass bottles and the crates are just for transporting from market to home, but I see your point, I'll point this out to her when she drops off her next order. Thank you.

Jig complexity is a huge variable. Some jigs take five minutes to make, others run into days. To recover or absorb the cost of the former is no great issue, the latter requires a little more thought.
In the case of the complicated jig, one must factor in the cost of design, material and production. This jig is a commission in itself. The important factor here is the client must be made aware of the complexity and inherent cost that comes with it. Also that this is a one-off cost and the price of future orders will be reduced accordingly. This helps reduce the risk of the client feeling the item is over-priced if the cost of setup is hidden in the overall quote.

A few hours looking in pinterest and I may have figured out how to make them in bulk with no jig. Saw him today and he was happy with an extra charge for a possible set of jigs, I had to laugh(to myself) when he mentioned he was wanting a brand for them as well, I said, Well the last 2 quotes I got for a brand ranged from 500 to 1000 bucks, he says, what??!! why don't you just make one using your router.... I smiled politely...
I'm finding explaining the complexities of certain jobs to people with 0 skills rather difficult...a skill I'll pick up with practice I hope.

Originally Posted by Kiwi75

Have been asked to do a quote for a local fulla who makes chilli sauce. Late last year I made some milk crates for a lady who sells her own milk. (snip)

He wants something along these lines but three different sizes. I need to make jigs for each of these, the question is, do I charge extra on the first order for the cost of making these or do I treat it more like an investment and not charge? Cheers Peeps, hope you all have a fantastic weekend.
Carlos.

Two points to make:

1. The jigs are part of your build time. You must charge for this.

2. Future orders will be priced lower since the jigs are ready to re-use.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You can use Ammonia Chloride and a heat gun to make branding (of sorts) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3K4J7yn7ga0

Originally Posted by woodPixel

You can use Ammonia Chloride and a heat gun to make branding (of sorts) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3K4J7yn7ga0

Many thanks for this link Evan, a very clever idea and well worth experimenting with.

Alan...

Hi Kiwi

In reference to your other thread about what you should use for your hourly rate, this

Originally Posted by Kiwi75

A few hours looking in pinterest and I may have figured out how to make them in bulk with no jig.

is an example of "work time" you are not paid for. It is part of your overhead which is why suggestions for an appropriate hourly rate seemed so high.

In respect to this particular job, it appears that by the time the customer commits you may have up to 10 unpaid hours "invested" in the job.

Originally Posted by Kiwi75

I had to laugh(to myself) when he mentioned he was wanting a brand for them as well, I said, Well the last 2 quotes I got for a brand ranged from 500 to 1000 bucks, he says, what??!! why don't you just make one using your router.... I smiled politely...

Not being sure of what business services are available to you, I would think that you might be able to get a relatively simple logo printed onto heavy plastic sheet at reasonable cost.
After making the required cutouts you would then have a stencil which you could use with spray paint to apply the logo.