Thread: removing big rustry nasty nails / bolts from big ironbark wharf timber

huge thanks to DJ for picking up and dropping off the big wharf timbers for me today. i have posted some pics of the timbers which DJ placed with surgical precision in my driveway.

i managed to get one of the spikes out. i grinded two sides flat which allowed me to twist the spike around. i then cut two notches into the steel and hammered a pry bar into the notch and got the spike out. mind you this was near the end of one of the timbers where the wood was slightly degraded.

only about 100 left to go!

you can see that the spikes are in pretty good condition (they are not rusted through).

i have been looking at the timbers a few times today. they look so nice id like to use them in their current form but they are just too big to handle! each one of these timbers weighs in at about half a tonne! ironbark is 1100kg per m3, and these are 300mm x 300m x 6metres (0.54 x 1100 = 600kg!)


i have also found in the USA that you can buy carbided tipped wood core drill bits that can cut a core 11 to 12inches deep. available in various diameters. basically its like a long hole sole without the pilot drill

B & A - Drill Bits - Wood Drill Bits - Hole Saws Carbide Tipped

does anyone know if there is a supplier of similar wood core drill bits in Australia? or should i just order from the US

Was good to meet you Andrew, looking forward to milling these big suckers up once you've removed all the bits of steel

I'd be tempted - to get the hole corer bits from the USA!

Just be careful tho, not exactly sure what's happened with US post - maybe their economy collapse is coming home to roost, because just about anything I click on from the USA on evil bay, it says the postage will be over $60Aus to get it here!

So a couple of cheap core drill bits could be double or triple the cost when landed due to the excessive postage - i.e. it might pay to buy enough that the postage is a small %age on each one... maybe sell a few spares to fellow forumites or something?

I ordered a few spare parts for my combination machine recently, from the UK & the quoted postage? 200 UK pounds!

Just be aware of postage - somethings happened with international air freight rates or postage costs or something...

I bought an expensive custom guitar from the USA only 3 or 4 years back and it was only about $50 insured express air freight...so suddenly postage rates have gone thru the roof in the last 12months ... someone in the postage/ freight bidness, is cashing in BIG, on international demand it seems.

They have figured out we can avoid VAT and GST etc on international orders under a grand, and just added that to their profit bottom line by jacking up the postal rates!.

Beware is all.

I received a quote back from b&a manufacturing in the US

a 1.5 inch diameter 11inch deep carbide tipped core drill is US$308. Its US$387 with windows (i presume the windows assist with ejection of the debris or core itself) and are probably worth having.
a 2 inch diameter 12 inch deep costs US$433 or US$547 with windows!

Wow they are expensive! Maybe i should try find one made in china

and shipping is $171 from the US and its a custom made item so lead time in 4 weeks

I am also waiting for a quote from another manufacturer in the US (advantage drills) to compare costs

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

Just be aware of postage - somethings happened with international air freight rates or postage costs or something...

As I just discovered! I bought two small pieces of speciality brass tube, cost $15 for the two, then handling $10 (thanks very much) and finally postage, $39.95!!!!

Mentioning brass tube gives me an idea.

I encourage you to stick at this job ... and keep telling us all about it.
Even getting normal size nails out of old timber can be kinda a grind but also kinda cool.

I predict that soon enough you will come up with a process that works ... then you can declare a forum working-bee and supply the snags and beer and have others get into it for you

There are plenty of examples on the forum of people taking various metals and heating and then tempering them to make cutting tools ... as well as cluey metal-workers too ... RayG Josh ... all the metalwork forumites ...

I think you could try making your own plug cutter from some tube and a $120 welder.
Cut teeth into it using a thin-kerf angle-grinder disk and a file.
I assume it would need heat-treatment to last as a cutter.

Someone might take it on as a challenge.

Sometime I find that you can save some work by cutting off various amounts of wood off the ends ... just comes down to deciding what wood to lose or not.
A good handsaw will cut through a foot-square timber

Also if you have ever chiselled a mortice, then you can cut a section around a 'nail' in a similar way ... at least down an inch or so.

There would probably be a hydraulic solution ... sounds like just the thing really ... slowly applying a huge force ... like the reverse of a hydraulic press.
Gripping the bolt would be the challenge ...
Something involving a metal bar and a hydraulic jack might get something happening.

Good luck ... but be safe ...
Paul

i worked on this today.

so far i have 5 bolts out (doesnt sound impressive i know!) but a couple took a long time

one of the posts only had 2 bolts which is great. so at least one is all done.

the method i am using is to drill with an auger around the bolt (as many holes as i can running along the side of the bolt)

i then fill the hole with water for a while

then grind the top of the bolt flat on both sides and try and twist with a huge shifter to loosen it

then cut two grooves with a angle grinder and use a large pry bar to lever out, i have bent two pry bars already.

in some cases, even after i drill the bolt wont budge, but ill come back to those i havent given up

once the bolt is out i use a bit spade bit to bore the whole out and make sure the hole is neat. ill post some pics tomorrow

one question I have is how would i cut the posts in half for example. its 300 x 300mm. would i use a chainsaw? or i have a makita 5104 270mm circular saw which has a max depth of cut of 100mm (ie could cut around each side and then be left with a 100 x 100mm square in the middel and cut it with a handsaw). thoughts?

one of the posts has too many bolts and is in immaculate condition, i dont want to butcher it so i will use it in its current form as a feature post for a verndah in front of the house (cut to around 3500mm long). also is it possible to get post anchors to hold posts this size up (or do i just sink it in the ground) would prefer to use a post anchor than waste putting 700mm in the ground. also makes it lighter i guess

For nails/bolts that size I would weld a bolt on to the nail and rig up a bottle jack as a pulling device. 5 or 6 tonne of force will shift 'em.

Originally Posted by cowenan

one question I have is how would i cut the posts in half for example. its 300 x 300mm. would i use a chainsaw? or i have a makita 5104 270mm circular saw which has a max depth of cut of 100mm (ie could cut around each side and then be left with a 100 x 100mm square in the middel and cut it with a handsaw). thoughts?

one of the posts has too many bolts and is in immaculate condition, i dont want to butcher it so i will use it in its current form as a feature post for a verndah in front of the house (cut to around 3500mm long). also is it possible to get post anchors to hold posts this size up (or do i just sink it in the ground) would prefer to use a post anchor than waste putting 700mm in the ground. also makes it lighter i guess

Good stuff Andrew, keep at it

For posts that size, I'd used a chainsaw with either a freshly sharpened or new chain. If you don't have one or one big enough to cut in one go, I can do it for you when I pick them up again.

You'll most likely have to get a post anchor made for that size.

Thanks DJ i dont have a chainsaw so ill leave all the chopping up to you

i got my hands on a 2400 watt heavy duty core drill today. Pictured. It only cost me 200 from ebay and its never been used. Its a common chinese hilti rip off. Millers falls pt3450. Now i jus need some core bits and i will be able to neatly cut a core around the bolt. Im not to keen on my previous method of drilling several holes around the bolt method as it leaves a bit of a gaping messy hole. And its not easy trying to use a wide spade bit to neaten the hole.

I do like the idea of welding a nut on and using a bottle jack. A couple of questions

1. What is the easiest type of welder for a beginner. From what i read a Mig welder with Flux core wire is the easiest. i presume this kind of weld will hold the force?
2. How would i connect the bottle jack to the bolt!

Also on the question of large heavy duty post anchors ive tracked down these T blades. Which one would be best to hold up a 250x250mm iron bark post that is around 3.5 metr long (300kg). See pictures

BPA12EHD200 200 T Blade x 10mm - 200 x 200mm Base - 2000mm Leg - Hot Dipped Galvanised
BPA12TH200 300 T Blade x 10mm - 180mm Base - To 200mm Post - 580mm Leg - Hot Dipped Galvanised

A couple of examples from Supercheap ... bottom end of the scale ... other than borrow or 2nd hand ...

stick welder $129SCA Welder - Arc, Transformer, 100amp - Supercheap Auto Australia

non-gas mig $300
SCA Welder - Mig, Transformer, 100amp - Supercheap Auto Australia

For quick and 'dirty' ... cheap supplies ... stick welder works

Either way probably a bit of a learning curve involved ... not too much to achieve what you want.

Definitely get an auto-blanking helmet ... I'd be (more) useless without one!

Cheers,
Paul

searched far and wide in oz for anyone who could supply a WOOD core drill (carbide). no luck

so ended up ordering from the US see attached picture

ordered 2. one is a 1.25inch diameter. 11inch depth. the other is 1.5 inch diameter 11 inch depth. they fit onto the core drill pictured (1 1/4inch thread)

they are expensive. $300 each. so hopfully they do the job! will post pics once i have them in 3 week in action

Wood Augers Manufacturer/Distributor auger drill bits:. Long wood auger drill bits, Carbide tip heavy duty large wood augers. Wood Drill Bits Auger Bits, Timbers/Construction/Wood Sea Walls/Landscaping/Utilities Heavy Equipment Mat Construction Carbi

separately, i have been looking and thinking about one of these. a hydraulic bearing puller. any ideas of how i could connect this to pull a bolt? i get the idea of weldign a nut on the end of the spike, but how to then connect the bearing puller to the nut???

Heavy Duty 5 TON Hydraulic Bearing Gear Puller | eBay

The bearing puller won't work. It's for sliding a bearing off a stationary shaft. You want to pull the whole shaft out.
I was thinking of a piece of, say, 8mm thick x 30mm wide piece of bar bolted either side of the bolt. Support one end with a block of something hard and put the bottle jack under the other end of the bars.
As you operate the jack it will lift the bars and push up on the bolt head. A socket could be welded on one end to accept the head of the jack and stop it from slipping off. I hope that makes sense. If not I can try and draw it up.

thanks archer. after watching a you tube video of how a bearing extractor work i figured it pushes and doesnt pull

so i was walking down the street today and found an old commodore tow bar setup. looks like it would work as a lever

see pictures

im thinkink i drill the hole in the foot in the centre wide enough to fit the spike. i cut into the wood about an inche to accomodate.
then i weld a nut on the spike after the spike has been inserted in that centre foot

i then put a bottle jack under a socket which is welded onto the other end end

going to buy a mig welder tomorrow to try this out!