Thread: removing big rustry nasty nails / bolts from big ironbark wharf timber

see attached

first attempt, the weakest link was the actual grinded down spike (the spike just snapped off where it was welded to the nut)

second attempt, i rewelded the nut onto the spike and twisted the nut (with a big shifter with a pipe attached for leverage)

reattached my bottle jack spike extractor (made from an old commodore tow bar) and the bolt was pulled out! bingo.

ignore my welding. its my first time on the welder. i got a cigweld 135 and just using gasless welding for this. will buy a disposable argon bottle for anything more serious as what ive read the gas migweld with solid wire is cleaner. i realise the nuts im welding on are zinc coated, but im doing this outdoors and staying away from the fumes

ok so i was all confident after the first bolt was pulled out. 6 tonne bottle jack

next bolt (the one pictured). guess what, the steel bar bent! yes the bolt in the wood didnt move a bit. the nut didnt break off the weld, just the steel behind the bolt bent backwards until the bottle jack was fully raised! so now i have used two of the extracted bolts and welded these either side to reinforce the bar.



then i had to go so only got one out today

it is actually more enjoyable that it all sounds! very satisfying seeing that first bolt pulled out as the jack moved up! i think its funny how i found that old commodore tow bar lying on the nature strip the other day. its like it was made for this job!

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Not going so well! The weakest point is the nut welded onto the spike. The weld is breaking and coming off once the jack starts putting on enough pressure

if i can turn the spike first ( which i have done on a few with a monkey wrench and pipe for leverage) then the spike pulls out. If i cant turn the spike (which is typically the case) the nut then breaks off when welded on to the spike

Given the service application, many of the iron pieces might be nearly chemically welded into the wood.
Consider giving each no more than 1 or 2 almightly whacks, just to break whatever bonding has happened.
I've had to fix my share of old rusty stuff.
Best trick with threads is to try to get the fixture to turn on 1/8 more turn.
I've been surprised how rusty things back out after that.
Best of luck.
Thanks for a good showing!

If the hook is bending, then you could weld beside the hook back up to the bar ... forming a 3-sided box for the nut to sit into.

Definitely a whack (and then a turn) might help ... maybe you could make something robust after the shape of a crowbar/tyre-iron that could be insert under the nut and be smacked with a small sledge trying to lift it slightly.

You could still go in with the corer around the bolt, then try the leverage??

Cheers,
Paul

Originally Posted by pmcgee

If the hook is bending, then you could weld beside the hook back up to the bar ... forming a 3-sided box for the nut to sit into.

Definitely a whack (and then a turn) might help ... maybe you could make something robust after the shape of a crowbar/tyre-iron that could be insert under the nut and be smacked with a small sledge trying to lift it slightly.

You could still go in with the corer around the bolt, then try the leverage??

Cheers,
Paul

Better still, IMHO, wait until your super-plug cutter or corer arrives.

Remember the first line of the Hippocratic Oath - "Do no harm." The objective is to produce the maximum amount of usable timber and you do not want to split anything or create super sized holes for plugging.

A nice round smooth drilled hole is much eaier to fix later; not a gaping wound, or worse. But you will, most likely, destroy some material.. It happens!



Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by pmcgee

If the hook is bending, then you could weld beside the hook back up to the bar ... forming a 3-sided box for the nut to sit into.

Definitely a whack (and then a turn) might help ... maybe you could make something robust after the shape of a crowbar/tyre-iron that could be insert under the nut and be smacked with a small sledge trying to lift it slightly.

You could still go in with the corer around the bolt, then try the leverage??

Cheers,
Paul

ok i ended up welding the bolts on the top and underneath. this has made them stronger. you still cant twist them with a wrench though. they end up snapping off

the long round bar on my contraption kept bending. so i welded a 3/4 inch thick iron bar along the length of the long curved bar. this stopped the bar bending. well it stopped it bending along the length instead it bends along the join to the actual part that sits under the bolt. so i welded two more iron bars along each side. it still found another point to bend (instead of moving the bolts!)

he then suggested i modify my commodore tow bar extractor and instead make it so the jack is seated almost directly over the bolt and im pushing straight up. we did this by putting the extract on its side and cutting a groove in the plate. anyway the 10mm steel plate that site under the bolt just bent under pressure!

i think your right. the rust has basically chemically welded the bolts into ironbark. the 8 or so i have removed are basically thicker at the base than the top. so the rust expands and basically forms a barb. and the wood is basically like iron. so its too hard to pull it through. i can cut right down i guess and just made an even bigger bolt extractor but then im just basically butchering the wood (im already cutting in 20 to 25mm to get in to weld on the nut and seat the extractor beneath).

so the only way there coming out is with the core drill. have to wait 3 weeks for the custom made carbide 11 inch core drills to be made and come in from the USA. will post pics of them in use. i figure i can core around the bolt (200mm deep) and then bash it sideways with a hammer to weaken the core at the base and then try and extract.

Are the nuts on top of the bolt? or big enough to go around them?

Last idea ... if the nut is around the bolt ... cutting 1/6th of the nut away so that you can get more vertical weld in there?



Paul

This may not be practical, but as you are have little success pulling them out, but you must be getting good at welding, perhaps it is worth thinking about using a press to try and push the bolts out.
Yes I do realise the timbers need a forklift or crane to move and you probably do not have a press handy.
Search | machineryhouse.com.au I have seen manually operated presses, and it is possible to make a frame and use your carjack as the pressing force.

I did say this was only a suggestion.

hi cant press them out (they only go half way through)

finally the custom made carbide core drill bits have arrives from the USA

see attached pictures

have 2. one is 1 1/14 inch the other 1 1/2 inch. both 13.5 inch long. the carbide teeth at thicker than the drill core wall.

only problem is they sent me the wrong adapter. they are a 5/8 inch female thread, and the core drill is 1 1/4 inch male. so im now searching for a 1 1/4 inch female to 5/8 inch male adapter.

have asked for the correct adapter but may need to wait a week for postage

looking forward to posting some pics of the core drill in action. should be and interesting exercise!

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If you can wait another week, so can I .

hi all

half way through the process of extracting the bolts, using a core drill with carbide tipped wood core bits (11 inch long)

process has been slowed down as the bolts tend to go in at an angle

You have been a patient man!

So I guess even if the bolts angle over, it will contact the inside of the tube not the cutting teeth. ??

Cheers,
Paul

finally I have finished extracting the bolts!!! I have driven everyone crazy with the process, neighbours wondering what I am doing in the front yard with my noisy core drill. but I was determined to get this done!

I pulled out close to 60 of these wretched things. all about 20cm long, and 20mm thick.

the core drill with the carbide cores was sensational - but only to a certain depth. none of the bolts went in straight, so at some point the teeth start cutting into the steel, and as you can see from the attached photos, the teeth eventually come off second best. but the drills fought to the very end, right down to a single tooth

by the time I finished, the larger diameter core drill had 1 tooth left! and the smaller diameter was down to 2 teeth. the walls on the smaller diameter bit split from spreading / rubbing on the bolts that went in on a slight angle angle. and I had to bend them back eventually and weld the splits. by the last 2 bolts I was drilling with jagged steel!

so the process evolved as follows:

1. core drill as deep as I could around the bolt until I could hear steel on steel (or usually smoke). some times I could go for the full depth (couple of times) usually at least 10cm
2. chisel around the bolt removing enough wood (say 10 to 15mm) to use an angle grinder to grind back two sides on the top of the bolt
3. use a large construction shifter and try and twist / loosen the bolt. this is a lot harder than it sounds. in some cases, even with only 5cm of bolt in the wood, it wouldn't turn (the rust is like it is glued in).
4. use an angle grinder to cut two horizontal slits into he top of the bolt and remove with very long crow bar

DJ is coming to pick the timber up soon and they will be cut up as follows:

1. 4 x posts x 3.3mt long. these will have 1 inch removed from all 4 sides (final size 250 x 250) so the ironbark will be bought back to life. these will be the feature posts on the verandah. I am getting custom made BIG galv T blades made which will hold the posts up
2. 1 beam will be cut into 2 x 4 metre lengths, 100mm x 250mm and this will be the feature beam that is bolted across the top (the rafters sit on this and it will be exposed from the inside)
3. the last one will be cut into 50mm x 250mm x 4 metre lengths and will be the fascia around the outside of the verandah

I will post pictures of the timber once it is cut up. I will be leaving the holes exposed to remind me of the history of the wood. I have made a side table out of some of the extras that came with it I will post that separately here. he colour ranges from rich red to brown.

Those core drills took a hammering, but they did the job! I must thank you for the inspiration in using them. I had a little job to do, removing some broken off steel coach screws in a boat deck, and so made up a rough and ready core drill from a length of 1/2" stainless tube to do the job. I had the same experiences as you, but I could at least cut off the overheated/spread/toothless section on the bottom and resharpen. Well done!