Thread: removing big rustry nasty nails / bolts from big ironbark wharf timber

You could try plug cutters. Probably a bit safer than a hole saw woth out the dirll bit. Might go through a few of them though.

Firstly, I think that before they are resawn the mill will want to make sure that
all nails etc have been removed. For you to be sure
you need to go over each piece with a metal detector and mark them.
Then to remove I think that you need to drill pilot holes each side of the old nail
thatares large enough for you to be able to move the nail from side to side to loosen and
then remove. If they go right through I would try to then punch them out. I would then when finished go over each piece again with the metal detector
to be doubly sure. You can decide after resawn whether yoyu want to fill the holes or leave
for appearance. If they are a good size I would fill with coloured epoxy for effect. Hope this helps, Drillit.

My bro In Law lived in Busselton for a few years and after one particularly big blow, the busso jetty took a beating and some large beams floated free and washed up on the beach. He managed to get his 4wd down the beach with a trailer and dug the pieces out of the sand and proudly brought them home, presenting me with the problem of "making them into something"... for him.

They had bolts that were at least 100 years old rusted right into them - you could see the layers upon layers of rust - and it just expands them into the hole so tight that they were almost impossible to get them out. I pounded on the protruding ends with a gymp hammer..and eventually a sledge hammer and all it did was rivet the end of the rusted bolt over!

So after using a angle grinder to cut the now rivetted end off again, we ended up using a combination of drilling in alongside the bolt & heat & more pounding with big hammers - we did eventually get them out.

Then I started taking a 1/3 thickness slice off with my chainsaw - which came out pretty well - then bro In law says "here, give me a go" and being his timber - I had no coice but to let him at it and he managed to prety much screw up the remaining 2 pieces... by going at it like a banshee...with the chainsaw and double, then triple cutting the scarf deep into the timber of either side piece - bye burying the nose of the bar and engaging the dog teeth and heaving on it like a man possessed rather than just let the saw do it's thing.

He finally got thru alright, after "showing me how its done" but the remaining to slices were so badly mutilated there was nothing I could do to salvage them and the one good piece wasn't much use on its own. He still has them in his shed....all these years later, fully imagining that they are "worth a fortune because of their history" and that I can work some kinda woodwork magic and do something with them...

Truthfully I wouldn't even use them for firewood now.

The one good piece I ran over the jointer, the rust scale remaining inside the holes wore large divots in my jointer blades that took a re-grind to get rid of (yeah like 4 or 5 normal sharpens life out of the planer knives).

I vowed and declared t myself I'd never work on that crap, salty, rusty, beach sand impregnated, lump of wood if it was the last thing i ever did, which is why the wood remains in his shed today - I wouldn't even allow it into mine.

I guess everyone's experience is different - mine with Jetty / wharf timbers hasn't been good thus far. It could have turned out better if my ham fisted (but well meaning) bro in law doesn't 'insist' on always "showing me how its done.

We don't do a lot of wood working together these days.... I learned my lesson early on.

I hope your mileage with thes ewharf timbers ends better than my one go at it. It CAN be done - but whether its worth the grief is another thing entirely - at the time I had a sawmill and log contract & I could just mill new wharf sized timber if wanted to avoid all the grief that the rusty bolt holes in the old jetty timbers caused...

I can see why your keen based on the previous results - knowing how hard it can be to do, I take my hat off to you.

Perhaps I should send my bro in law around to assist you?

If they are quite large I would suggest drilling a hole in the end of the nail/bolt tapping it and screwing another bolt into it. You can then use the new bolt as a grab point for the crowbar etc.

thanks for your replies

i took some more pics today of the wood and the bolts. as you can see the wood is in very good condition so really determined to get these bolts out. they arent the piers that were in the water, they were the bearers that held up the decking. have been sitting in a paddock for a while, but the bloke who sold them to me had mosts of them milled into 235mm x 21m of the best ironbank flooring i have ever seen. these are the left over but there is 32meters at 300 x 300 so heaps of timber

i like the idea of the plug cutter and have found you can get carbide tipped large diameter such as the below, so i will get a couple of these to try cutting a plug around the bolt for better access

Carbide-Tipped Dowel, Plug & Tenon Cutters - Lee Valley Tools

i also spoke to the saw mill today which is proposing to cut the timbers for me. he said the best way he has found is to drill holes around the nail and them poor water in for a few days. he said i am welcome to deliver the timbers to his yard and work on the nails

Close up in those new pics they look like deck spikes - which if this was bearers for decking would make perfect sense.

If you could put two horizontal hacksaw cuts into the spike down flat near the timber in a V arrangement, perhaps you could hammer a jemmy bar nail puller V into the slots and get enough bite to lever them out?

Just a suggestion.

Thanks i was thinking along similar lines, ie using an angle grinder with a cutting disk to cut a notch on each side of the spike near the wood and them hammer a pry bar into the groove and push like hell hoping it comes out

i will also try the hacksaw ( manual and sawzall see if its a go)

Anyone know why they would cut these thick spikes off when dismantling rather than pull them out. I would have thought cutting was harder given how thick they are than actually extracting the spike while it still had a head or sleeper attached to it

Also the mill told me if i cut them into say 250mm x 50mm boards (say 3 metres long so they can be handled) that given how old and seasoned the ironbark is that it will be stable and wont move

We had 40 metres of old floor bearers with a fair few nails. Wanted to rip them for bench tops. We found nails by drawing a strong magnet along then drilled a small hole each side of nail, used a sharp spike to loosen at least the top portion then inserted needle nose pliers into the holes to grasp nail then used clamping jaws/footprints to compress the pliers and used pinch bar under the clamping jaws to lever it up. You have a bigger job but same principle may work. For big ones I'd try drilling big enough to insert nose of multigrips and then clamp them closed. Sometimes pays to drive nails in a mm or so to loosen their grip before extracting. Cheers

Good Morning Andrew

I also like using recycled timber. So much better than the plantation stuff.

The dust, grit, dried salt and rust flakes will do as much damage to your tools as the iron in the nails or spikes. I keep a "special" or sacrificial saw blade and a sacrificial set of thicknesser blades that I use initially on recycled timber until I am sure it is pristine and then I change blades.

Before starting, I suggest a really good cleaning with a Karcher - get rid of as much imbedded grot as you can - you will be surprised as to how much is flushed away. It also makes nails, bolts, imbedded rocks, etc more visible. Then free around the end of the nail with a plug cutter - you have to get a really good grip with a really man-sized pinch bar, or whatever. Applying an impact screwdriver to the head of the nail may assist in dislodging it - sometimes it works, often it does not. Heat may also help. Usually you have to drill a deeper plug hole. Or the nail/bolt snaps offf. Sometimes you have to drill right through with the plug cutter.

Then you have to think about what to do with the hole:

• easiest is to imediately fill it with a dowel. But it leaves end grain exposed.
• better is to fill it with properly sized plugs, but deep holes are very difficult to plug.
• or you can wait and plug the final planks
• or use dutchmen (square or rectangular plugs)
• Or you can fill it with epoxy resin
• or do nothing - leave it as a feature.

Expect some failures. Solid timber may inexplicably split, sometimes timber rots from the inside outwards, some timber may have fungus inside, some fungus is attractive, some is not, some nails are extremely stubborn. And protect your tools and yourself while you are doing all this. (eg slip a 2 metre length of pipe over the pinch bar to increase leverage, rather than using your back.)

The rewards can be very high. So can the frustrations.



Fair Winds

Graeme

Ok i went and had a crack today and no luck so far
firstly the spikes are thicker than i thought about 10mm thick. They are thicker than the opening On both the crow bars i had with me.
and there are more than i thought. So that wasn't very inspiring
also the one spike which is half exposed (bottom half) has a flat end. So i don't think they are decking spikes as i cant see how these could b hammered in with a flat end into the wood. But there also not bolts as they only go 3/4 of the way though.

Anyway i whacked the #### out of a couple with a heavy club hammer. Might as well been hitting an anvil as they did not budge a mico mm. But i figured there not going to go in deeper as there so thick with a flat end and it is decades old ironbark. I was jut trying to loosen it bit

on the positive side i had no issue drilling all around a bolt for access. Drilled an inch deep all around. I also put an auger bit 6 inch deep with a heavy duty drill. So drilling is fine

i tried the vice grips method and no matter how tight i clamped them, they would come off when i tried to turn or lever them

i didnt have an angle grinder or hacksaw so i couldnt try some other methods.

I went to bunnings to see if they had any magical tools. The bloke there was helpfull he said i should be trying to twist them. He suggested i get a hex nut that would fit around the bolt and weld it on. Then get a big spanner or shifter and with a steel pipe over the end try twist it. I dont have a welder or know how to weld ( i could learn if this was my last resort) but this gave me an idea which i will try next weekend. I am thinking ill drill all around the bolt as much as is reasonably practice then use a grinding disk to grind down two sides of the spike. Ie to turn the spike into a bolt. Which i can then attach a big shifter too and twist the spike. Will see how that goes

Good Morning Andrew

Sounds like you are being far too gentle and using undersized tools.

Bridge spikes were put in with sledge hammers, a little bit of rust - and rust expands 8-times greater than the iron it was formed from - and it is jammed real tight, in iron bark ?? which is notoriously tough. Also you must keep in mind that you want use the timber in the end - none of this "we had to destroy it to save it" garbage. For this reason, I suggest that you do not drill beside the spikes, but use a plu cutter which will give you an easily pluggable hole.

One the end of the spike is freed, if it is reasonably round then you might be able to put a thred on it and use a couple of lock nuts, or even a dome nut, then attempt to screw it with a extended spanner. Good chance that you may simply screw the bolt in half.

If the spike snaps inside the pile then you have at least two options:

• leave it there and plug the outside of the timber, or
• drill it right out with the plug cutter.

The big issue is always that you want to salvage the timber in the piles. This means get the spikes out, then use the timber.

Also, Andrew, be prepared for some disappointments. Timbers can split for no apparent reason, water may have entered through minor surface cracks and caused extensive internal rot, internal cracks may be quite large and gone blue, possible worm activity; many surprises possible.



Fair Winds

Graeme

Hi graeme

i also found this which is a core drill. Normally used to cut core holes in concrete with a diamond head drill. But you can get diamond head cores as small as 22 mm. And you can connect it to water. I was thinking of hiring it with a 22mm and 30mm core drill bit

do you think this is the easy solution. I can hire it for the day and with a stand to keep it straight. Can then drill around the 10 mm spike and straight though if needed.

will the diamond head core drills work in wood? I have seen a you tube video where a guy used one to cut 6 inch holes in 9 inch thick hardwood beams. He just keeps backing it out to clear the dust with no water attached

Wood coring - YouTube

Good Morning Andrew

Never seen one of those used on wood so I cannot really comment. Video does look impressive!

Remember, you will probably need to also cut larger sized plugs to fit the holes you drill. Do them at the same time so as to minimise hire charges.




Fair Winds

Graeme

Got a call today from a bloke today after my number was passed on by Bowerbird and after chatting for a few minutes I asked, hey are you the bloke who has been asking about removing spikes from iron bark on WWF and yes was the answer.

Anyway, all going well, I'll be picking the beams up and dropping them off to Andrew's place this Friday for him to remove the spikes/nails/bolts etc and then pick them up again in a few week to then mill them for him.

Will also advise him on methods to remove foreign materials when I drop them off.