Thread: Router lifts

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Before you make any decisions, Gordon, may I suggest that you consider three different strategies as advocated by Forum members Derek Cohen, Chris Parks and myself.


Graeme's Strategy

I simply bolt my hefty Makita 3600B router to an insert plate and drop it into the table top. Have to lift it out to do any adjustments or change bits; a bit cumbersome, but it works and is almost idiot proof. Remember: us idiots are very creative!

Mine is a piece of pine board that gets clamped to the nearest flat surface the router screwed to the bottom of it. Aldav was impressed when he saw it or perhaps he wasn't. The fence is the nearest bit of straight timber that has escaped the fire pile and two clamps.

Originally Posted by bluenose

I'm looking to do the same but was just planning on using the Triton router (when I can find one!) which has built-in depth adjustment.

Any reason why this isn't a good idea for a simple lift?

There are very long threads here about the problems with the tritons. I have the big one and the medium one. I bought them a long time ago. The speed control went on both.

If I was doing this from scratch I'd either build a spindle based system, there are very good details here, or get a makits with screw adjustment. The screw adjustment makes life a joy when you are doing precision joinery.

Unless they have fixed the problems with the triton I cannot recommend them. There are apparently ways of externalising the speed control and/or fixing it, but there are just better options now.

Someone in Australia used to sell an affordable device for turning a variety of routers into screw height adjustable units. I can't remember but the kit was affordable. I have no issue reaching under the table to twist the knob and lock the height, but if you want to do all that above the table then you might need something more elaborate.

And while we are at it <soapbox> there are all sorts of magical contraptions for setting heights of table saw blades router bits etc. A cheap vernier caliper and a combination square does all that. Verniers can be had on ebay for about $30 and combination squares are about $10. You can get near micron accuracy so I'm %^&*( if I can understand why people pay hundreds, and more, on whizz bang devices to do this... When I went blind I bought a dial gauge caliper as I have a devil of a time reading a vernier scale now, and the digital calipers are forever running out of batteries. </soapbox>

Originally Posted by Warb

My plan is to buy a (Carbatec?) motor unit and release my TRA001 for hand held use. I'm currently favouring the Kreg lift, because it will fit straight in my table whilst both the Carbatec and Jessem unit require other changes (I have read that Jessem supply specific corner brackets to fit their lift in a Kreg table, and Carbatec state "minor modifications required").

Warb

Although I have taken a quote from your post, I am also addressing Gordon, the OP.

One of the issues I struggle with is that we tend to recommend either what we have, as if it must be the best, or worse we recommend a very expensive option. While this latter may be technically correct, it does not always address the needs of the request for advice and, even worse, it may not address the budget. The budget is a big issue and any recommendation should always, to my mind, attach a qualifier to that extent. To some extent our decision is going to be influenced by the equipment we already have. As Warb, you already have a Triton router that I presume is working OK we should see what is available in the first instance for that.

As it happens, I have a table mounted Triton, which I will describe shortly. It is in fact my second Triton (the first one died) and this second one comes with the two chucks for 1/4" and 1/2"shanks. Before I mounted these Tritons permanently under the bench I did use them hand held: I didn't like them in that mode. I found them top heavy and unwieldly. Fortunately I have other routers, which I believe are far more suited to hand held operation.

Back to the table mount: In the past I have used anything that I had to hand to mount the router, but all of the "tables" were no more than a flat board. The best until more recently was an offcut of kitchen bench mdf (32mm?), but then I scored some thick aluminium, which is much better being strong. Even 32mm mdf sags eventually.

The aluminium is repurposed and has large holes in it from a previous life. It is nearly 1000mm long and 570mm wide. It sits on a steel frame made from angle iron that I bought at a sale. One day I will enclose it with a cupboard, but there are no immediate plans for this as while it sits inside the shed there is no wall on that side and it gets all the weather.

P1080100 (Medium).JPGP1080101 (Medium).JPGP1080102 (Medium).JPG

As you can see, the one concession to refinement is an Incra insert plate. I have a set of clearance plates to go with it (about ten I think) to suit different cutter diameters. I have several "fences" and the one in these pix is the most sophisticated. In this regard I have a similar philosophy to Chris Parks. Actually, this is not quite true, as I have an Incra router fence but have never even taken it out of the box as being open to the elements I am unwilling to use it until a more sheltered location is found (not any time soon the way things are going).

When I bought the Incra plate I originally had intended buying the Woodpecker system, but the Australian importer had some dispute at the time and was selling the Incra system which is why I bought that instead.

P1080103 (Medium).JPG

This last pic is no different to the first except that I brushed off the dust and debris for the photoshoot.

If I was buying from scratch, I think I would look at Chris Park's suggestion, or if a traditional router I might look at the Makita. I have a large, old Makita, but while close to bullet proof, it is not variable speed. Variable speed is essential to accommodate large router bits, which inevitably become part of table routing.

Regards
Paul

As far as I can see, the Kreg/Jessem lift is in fact a pair of linear bearings and a leadscrew, in association with the hardware to clamp a motor unit etc. Obviously it costs significantly more than buying eBay linear bearings and making from scratch, but as I already have a Kreg table it is a "drop in" solution - take out the existing Kreg top plate + TRA001, and insert the new unit.......

I agree with the benefits of a dedicated "motor" rather than a router, which is why I was considering the Carbatec motor unit. I have yet to investigate other options, although a VFD and rpm readout would indeed be nice! For my use a water cooled unit adds more complexity than I need, and offers no benefits - I cannot see myself pushing the duty cycle hard enough to warrant water cooling!

So, off to eBay to see what air cooled VFD driven motors are available!!

Originally Posted by damian

And while we are at it <soapbox> there are all sorts of magical contraptions for setting heights of table saw blades router bits etc. A cheap vernier caliper and a combination square does all that. Verniers can be had on ebay for about $30 and combination squares are about $10. You can get near micron accuracy so I'm %^&*( if I can understand why people pay hundreds, and more, on whizz bang devices to do this... When I went blind I bought a dial gauge caliper as I have a devil of a time reading a vernier scale now, and the digital calipers are forever running out of batteries. </soapbox>

There are specialist devices for doing almost anything, and all those jobs can be done in other ways. Sometimes the specialist device is more accurate or faster, sometimes it requires less user skill, and sometimes it is simply a marketing gimmick. I have a friend who hates digital calipers because he says he cannot get an accurate reading. In fact (I watched him use them) the problem is that he can see the numbers changing as the pressure he is exerting changes. He cannot see the changes on a vernier, so he thinks it is "more accurate". I, like you, can no longer read a vernier without finding glasses and a torch, so I use a digital set - $20 from Bunnings for use on the wood lathe, much more for the "good" sets to measure engine wear!!

One thing I have learnt, by the way, is that most cheap digital calipers come with A76 batteries. The voltage drops off very quickly with A76's, and the calipers stop working or behave strangely. I suspect that none of those devices were ever designed to use A76's, they were designed to use SR44's (aka 357) which are the silver (chemistry) version and maintain a far more constant voltage. The better quality calipers (etc.) such as Mitutoyo come with SR44 as standard, and even a warning not to use A76's.

I don't actually have many "magical contraptions", but I got a magnetic mitre slot indicator from Magswitch as a gift, and I've found it to be a very useful device. The ability to instantly fix a dial gauge to any cast iron or steel surface is very useful to measure thickness, runout, "drift", or to micro-adjust fences etc. I once even used it for it's original design purpose and checked the alignment of my table saw.... which was fine!

Just a heads up on the Carbatec motor, in the first couple of generations these motors had speed control issues and were pulled from the market due to that problem for over 12 months. I did buy a second generation version after they returned to the market with the issues fixed and it failed also though not in my hands as I had sold it to use a spindle. To be fair others have since used them with apparently no issues so the fix could have eventually worked. I only put it here as a heads up so to speak and others may have more experience as it has been some years since the initial problems.

Originally Posted by Warb

One thing I have learnt, by the way, is that most cheap digital calipers come with A76 batteries. The voltage drops off very quickly with A76's, and the calipers stop working or behave strangely. I suspect that none of those devices were ever designed to use A76's, they were designed to use SR44's (aka 357) which are the silver (chemistry) version and maintain a far more constant voltage. The better quality calipers (etc.) such as Mitutoyo come with SR44 as standard, and even a warning not to use A76's.

Are they interchangable ? If I could improve the battery problems my digital calipers would be a lot more useful.

I can probably still read a vernier scale with my reading glasses on but having a narrow field of view now just makes anything like that hard work. The chinese dial caliper is not well designed but seems accurate. I've not done a proper calibration on it yet. Everything takes along time now...

Thank you for the information on the batteries.

Originally Posted by damian

Are they interchangable ? If I could improve the battery problems my digital calipers would be a lot more useful.

Totally interchangeable - same size, same voltage. The only differences are chemistry and possibly cost. A76 (also known as LR44) are alkaline batteries, whilst SR44 (also known as D357, Duracell from Bunnings etc.) are silver oxide. Technically the silver oxide version is 1.55V whilst the alkaline is 1.5V, but this makes no difference in the real world, especially as most digital measurement equipment was actually designed for the silver oxide battery. Either will run the calipers, but the silver oxide battery maintains it's voltage much more constantly through it's life, whilst the alkaline version drops quickly over time. The result is that the silver oxide battery will run the calipers until the battery almost exhausted, whilst the alkaline version will drop below the voltage that the caliper requires long before the battery is actually used up. An alkaline battery that no longer works in your calipers may well power a less sensitive item for many more months!!

Both versions of the battery exist under various different names, and the original SR44 now also has sub versions (such as SR44SW) that define other aspects of the battery's chemistry, which may make them marginally better or worse for particular uses like long life but low draw, for example. Most of this isn't important, especially as the easiest source is normally Bunnings etc. who sell either Duracell (D357) or Energiser (357)....

I've had two of the Triton TRA001 lifters in my first incarnations.

FIRST had a simple blue phenolic plate. It was upgraded to the chain-style lifter. The TRA bolted to the bottom.... but raising it enough to change bits was a PITA.

The TRA eventually needed bearings replaced. Bought another TRA.


NEXT I upgraded to a PWS spindle with speed control and Incra Mast-R-Lift II Metric

Man-o-man is that the bees knees. Soooo quiet!

But... costs a mint!

The PWS was well before spindles were easy to acquire. There are threads here where we were talking about it endlessly, as it was new.


NOW, while I'm on my "Balcony Workshop" I'm using a little Makita DRT50Z in a home made top.


TODAY, if I were to do this from scratch and knowing-what-I-know..... Id 100% do Chris Parks' solution of the water spindle and rails. No question.


I'd build a dust box around it though with a FAT dust extractor... dust from router tables is unholy.

I really like the solution of Mr Parks. It is functionally simple, easy to make, low cost using excellent components, completely accurate and easy to clean. It might not be sexy like an Incra (with shiny metal, anodised aluminium and giant threaded rods), but it works perfectly and one can build it into a nice compact solution with a table saw.


See this dude on Instagram with his neato table solution.... the router component takes no additional space. Bonus points!!!

For sale right now on the forum JessEm Rout-R-Lift Prestige with Festool Router

Yeah I’m with you, Chris Parks’ spindle based router looks the shiz. I’m getting my shopping list together now to start a build.

Anyone have a reliable source for this type of stuff? As usual there are a thousand sellers out there that all seem to have roughly the same thing. I note that Chris recommended a few eBay links that are dead ends. I may start a new thread with a shopping list to get feedback.

Cheerz
Pete

More for interest than anything else. Sauter make router lifts, one of which (OT3.0) is designed to allow the motor to tilt at up to 45 degrees. Made in Germany, not cheap but they get good reports. Woodworking Tools - Buy Online - sautershop

They also sell Sauter, Mafell and Suhner router motors. One of the Sauter routers has an interesting toolless bit changing system Sauter FM1000-OFL router motor - sautershop

This site (UK based) has some very interesting stuff that we don’t get to see in Australia. Worth a browse.

There is a range of router motors with varying power outputs. I get the impression that European users are more likely to match their motors to the type of work they do most frequently whereas we are more likely to stick the equivalent of a V8 under the table. Just my impression - might be way off beam - but supported by what I’ve seen in professional shops in the UK (pretty small sample, though). Perhaps it’s to do with the softer timbers there?

I’ve been tempted, but not yet jumped

Best regards,

Brian

The tilt fuction would be very easy to do in a rail lift by adding a rail on the horizontal axis and an additional ball screw. The video showing the tilt function was done a few years ago from memory. Ruwi have quite a few interesting takes on router tables and can be seen on Vimeo.

UNBELIVEABLE

These are fantastic.

Pivoting router lift OFL3.0 - sautershop



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