Thread: SawStop Contractor's Saw

Interesting conversation......

After many years working around high voltage electricity I always revert back to the hierarchy of control for a bit of context, and believe me when you have seen someone come into contact with 33,000 volts and what that does you begin to take things alot more seriously!

1. Eliminate the hazzard (i.e. don't cut the timber in the first place),
2. Substitue for something with a lesser risk (use a hand saw)
3. Isolate the hazzard
4. Use engineering controls (i.e. Sawstop)
5. Use administrative controls (training, machinery inspections, correct technique etc)
6. Use personal protective equipment

You are always better to start at the top and move down the list to try reduce your risk. I understand cost is always a consideration but my advice would be to grab one of you can afford it. This does not mean you need to be any less vigilant with your technique but is simply another control mechanism.

All this talk about "correct technique" is very valid but unfortunately accidents do happen and on that one fateful day when you are a bit tired or someone walks into the shed at the critical moment..............I would be very grateful for a sawstop machine.

just my 2c

ps - A quick visit to the safety forum is, at times, quite sobering.

regards
Anthony

Originally Posted by Lignum

Probably not such a silly idea. If a ladder had a sensor that detected a sudden loss of pressure, and an air bag deployed it would save lives. I wonder if there is already such an invention.

There is (or was?)- it's a japanese invention in the form of air bag vest that has an accelerometer in it and if you fall off the ladder it deployed a Michelin man like vest. A number of people have had head and limb injuries from using it because the air bag deployed so rapidly it threw people away from (or into) anything vertical eg ladder or wall. Recommended use included a strapped on safety helmet. The other problem with it was people thought it would save them from falling from a much greater height than practical (3 m was the max recommeded height)

More successful is the hip protection air bag for seniors. This one is more successful and is credited with saving a number of senior citizen hips and subsequent health complications.

Originally Posted by Lignum

13 People have been admitted to hospital in Victoria this weekend from falling of ladders, one in a critical condition according to Ambulance Victoria today.

Sad to say the bloke in critical condition passed away yesterday.

Originally Posted by BobL

More successful is the hip protection air bag for seniors. This one is more successful and is credited with saving a number of senior citizen hips and subsequent health complications.

Now that is an awesome idea.

I remember many years agoin the UK a householder was killed by a lump of ice that went through the roof. There was speculation it came from an aircraft. A toilet disgorge or off the wing.
So how do we ensure everything. The answer is simple, if your number is its up, its up
You can insure, but someone charges you a premium based on profit. You can live in a cage and have a mosquito gives you the plague.
To remove risk from life is to remove life
What amateur can pay for a saw that self destructs if you touch the blade.
I have touched a moving blade but not on the jaggy bit. Never been hit by 33KV but 25KV sure made me take note.
Man evolved from the pack because of risk taking and the management of that risk.
Imagine a sawyer with a hand saw, Is this not a return to the pit?
I believe the guy who died did not fall from a ladder but fell over a balcony in a car park

Originally Posted by Lignum

Sad to say the bloke in critical condition passed away yesterday.

Now that is an awesome idea.

Here is some info on the japanese invention.
A wearable airbag to prevent fall injuries

In case you are not aware ladders are involved in the;
Number 1 DIY injury for admittance into Hospital emergency
Number 1 DIY injury for admittance into Hospitals
Number 1 DIY cause of death.

In all the debate going on has anyone looked at Whirlwind Tool Patents Pending Saw Safety Technology Available for Assignment/License. It will be, once patented, retrofitted to saws of all types. Not as quick as sawstop, but then again it stops the motor BEFORE your body parts get anywhere near it. Worth a look and in my case, maybe the wait.

Originally Posted by jenno

Not as quick as sawstop, but then again it stops the motor BEFORE your body parts get anywhere near it. Worth a look and in my case, maybe the wait.

I'm not all that impressed with the stop time.
Stop time is 13 ms and distance from blade of sensor is about 1".
To cross that distance and still hit the spinning blade an object has to travel at above 195 mm/s. This is not much more than fast cutting speed of thin sheet goods on a TS.

My concern is if the operators hand slips when it can travel a faster than 195 mm/s, I reckon it could reach 400 mm/s. The question is will it still take your finger off? My guess is it will or at least still give you a nasty cut.

Because it does not cost anything (short term) to trigger the stop I can just imagine the reprobates in year 9 woodshop class continually triggering the stop (why? - because it's there) and eventually one will work out a way to take their finger off (YAY!)

I have an alternative suggestion. Wire up the saw so that it won't operate unless the operator is attached to the sensor and have the sensor supply a low current HV pulse (like an electric fence) to the operator when their body get near the sensor. This will cause the operator to be MUCH more attentive about getting too near the sensor. It will also stop reprobates from messing with the stop mechanism. In fact I'll bet a stop mechanism will not even be needed.

Seriously, my guess is that it is MUCH better than nothing but like most things it's not idiot proof.

As has been said before "Every foolproof device just breeds a new type of fool"
Cheers

Yes well, I never said fool proof, just a third option.

Hi Jenno,
Yes I read about that a few days ago and have been waiting to see if it would brought up in this thread. It sounds interesting and should be easily developed to work on a table router or moulder etc..
As an aside I don't know if many people realise that when you switch a hand tool, router or saw with a remote switch you lose the dynamic breaking and they take longer to stop.
Regards

Yep, I own one, on the wheelie thing about 3 years ago.

Why did I buy it?

I have an 87 year old WW2 Digger mate with a couple of half digits missing

He told the story that it was ony a tenth of a seconds lack of concentration and they were gone

No Neurosurgery in those days

So why did I buy it..... I just just like my digits

(but ya gotta be prepared to pay!)

Originally Posted by PPW

He told the story that it was ony a tenth of a seconds lack of concentration and they were gone

And there's the crux of the matter - focus on what you do and you don't lose fingers (unless you're doing something REALLY stupid)