Thread: SAWSTOP - Keep all your fingers

There is an interesting thread going on at Woodcentral at the moment on this very subject. If it happens at all, it wont be for a very long time. The attitudes in the US on mandating safety seems to be construed as some government conspiracy by the less mentally adept.

Don't believe me? Have a look at how well mandatory seat belt laws have been accepted in the US. Not!!!!! Every time I go there I am dumb founded how many otherwise intelligent people refuse to wear them. Australia introduced mandatory seat belt laws in 1969. A lot of folks in the US seem to think (!) that this is an affront to their freedom. Don't believe that this is true? Have a look at one of the responses to a message of mine at Woodcentral.

I personally think that the US was the wrong place to start. If it were my business I would have started in Europe.

Of course, I don't really think that everyone in the USA are stupid. Crikey, we have our own share of boofheads and duffers! ) It's just that with 255 million people in the USA the number of boofheads start to be obvious.

I got in contact with them a few months ago in regards to the availability of their saws in Oz. If I recall correctly, they are focussing on the US market first and then expanding. The cost of sending a an Oz speced saw to Oz made it prohibitive (but then how much are 10 fingers worth ?)

I actually worked with the wife of the inventor in Portland Oregon. They tried for two years to get saw manufacturers interested but the added cost just impacted thier bottom lines. They failed to realize that there was a lesson to be learned from the car industry where safety has become a major selling issue--- SIP, airbags, clever braking systems etc. So as a result Steve has gone out on his own to manufacture commplete saw tables! Hope they maek it or convince the Delta's of this world that our fingers are worth saving, otherwise how can we write cheques (checks) for their goodies?
I saw a live demo using a sausage as a psuedo finger, barely nicked it! Dead scary!
Jacko

When does actual human testing begin?

Sawstop also gets a run in the latest FWW Tools and Shops. The stats quoted by the Assistant Editor are that in the US in 2002, there were 33,114 reported injuries on table saws, with 3,503 of those being amputations. Makes you shudder a bit and almost involuntarily close your hands.

You wonder why the demand isn't greater, even after considering the price.

Regards

I agree 100% they should have started with this idea in Europe where the safety rules are much more valued. Your best saw stop device is your blade guard and splitter (where appropriate) and a dash of comon sense

[QUOTE=markharrison]Don't believe me? Have a look at how well mandatory seat belt laws have been accepted in the US. Not!!!!! Every time I go there I am dumb founded how many otherwise intelligent people refuse to wear them. Australia introduced mandatory seat belt laws in 1969. A lot of folks in the US seem to think (!) that this is an affront to their freedom. Don't believe that this is true? Have a look at one of the responses to a message of mine at Woodcentral.

Of course, I don't really think that everyone in the USA are stupid. Crikey, we have our own share of boofheads and duffers! ) It's just that with 255 million people in the USA the number of boofheads start to be obvious./QUOTE]


Mandatory safety item in the US would largely affect their other national pass time...... sueing the @rse off your neighbour.

With 255 million people, they'd have more "boofheads" than our entire population (they do seem to have a higher percentage thought )


I followed the link on the FWW web site and dowloaded all the videos I could.
I think it's a fantastic product.

Having worked with (large) machinery before (think two water cooled rollers (water inside) both 140cm wide by 60cm dia. spinning at about 70 RPM, about a tone of gears and a 400hp electric motor, all stopping in a 1/4 turn :eek: ), I am aware of how brutal these quick stop mechanisms can be on the machine, and am also impressed to see that they have beefed up their arbour bearings to up to %50 greater diameter than their competitors.
So even if you never use the Stop function, larger bearings is always a plus.


Ben.

Here goes I am going to make myself a target for the PC Flamers out there.

I rate this idea up there with AirBags and ABS, A wast of Money nothing more.
OK we have a problem with people killing themselves in car crashes so what is our response? We spend billions making the killer impact softer with a big balloon! Why not slow down and learn to drive. Cant stop your brakes from locking so we develop ABS Why not drive for the conditions and make ABS redundant . Cant keep your pinkies out of a fast rotating blade that looks and sounds dangerous? Develop a special saw that stops when you shove a sausage in it.
This is just more of te same attitude that says if people act irresponsibly then we just make the world safer for them. Why do we not insist on people taking responsibily for their own behaviour and let Natural Selection
take its course.

Ross
Awaiting the hail of stones from those without sin.

Amen! Ross
I'm all for safety, but I think Ross has hit the nail on the head... hmm there is an idea... nails that you cannot miss

Crap!
Although I know safty is a priority for everyone and I agree with this topic I gotta say the reaction time from flesh damage to blade fall was just phanominal!!

The only thing I wonder about is if the water content of the wood would have an effect on the electrical sensor. Would green would create a bridge between the blade and person?

I agree that such safety devices should not be necessary and that if used correctly saw tables are safe BUT the number of accidents shows that they are not used correctly. All you need is the money and you can purchase 2 or 3 horse power of amputation machinery and you do not have to have even one bit of an idea of how to use it. The general attitude to safety by many of the tradesman I have worked with is appalling. I hardly ever see a chippy or a cabinet maker use eye protection when they use nail guns or powered saws (SCMS or table saws). I suspect that safety is taken more seriously by the non proffessionals of this world. But even there I have had some difficulty persuading some men that unless they take some rudimentary precautions that an accident is almost certain to happen. (If you are in the market for an interesting and educational experience try convincing some 17 and 18 year olds that ear protection is important and that ear plugs matter). So given the dire consequences of a mishap I am in favour of such devices being fitted, especially in environments were education and training is occurring and I hope that the man makes a fortune.

Originally Posted by chook

I. All you need is the money and you can purchase 2 or 3 horse power of amputation machinery and you do not have to have even one bit of an idea of how to use it.

I think this is a good point. A few years ago however TS's were very expensive, meaning that people felt like they had to learn how to use ther $1500 toy. Now you can buy a $68 TS from Big W. It may not be accurate but it'll but your finger off just as fast.

As my past post on 'fear of tablesaws' shows, I've read a few books, gone to Timbecon and Carbatecs demonstrations and I dont even have a table saw yet..................

Originally Posted by PuppyPaw

The only thing I wonder about is if the water content of the wood would have an effect on the electrical sensor. Would green would create a bridge between the blade and person?

On their web site (under FAQ) they say it won't affect the system.

I would liken it to tightrope walking with or without a safety net. If you are a wizard on the rope, you don't need the net. However, if you add the net, any mug can have a go without fear of falling.

Whilst I agree with Ross to a certain extent - there is an element of addressing the symptom rather than the cause - I would say that if someone can come up with a device that makes it less likely that someone is going to sever themselves from their digits, then it's a good idea.

As for attitude to safety, it's just that - an attitude. People can make their own choices as long as they live with them. You can't force people to change their attitude, all you can do is give them the information and let them decide for themselves.