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  1. #1
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    Default SAWSTOP fires off again!

    SAWSTOP fires off again for no obvious reason. Using an MDF cross cut saw for mitre cuts on silky oak (see photo). 3rd time in just over six months. No conduct materials involved, had just completed that cut through. Same thing happened previous 2 time on sleds made from Marine Ply, was told not to use marine ply, changed to MDF sled, bang again!

    Anyone else having problems with SAWSTOP?

    Anyone else having problems with MDF?

    Or have I got a lemon?

    1.jpg2.jpg

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  3. #2
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    sorry - cant help on the firing matter but I’d be interested to know who said not to use marine ply?
    If that’s the case then that’s good reason not to buy one!

  4. #3
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    Hi Lappa, the SAWSTOP rep...... I was told to use the saw in bypass mode when using marine ply, which is really annoying as I paid good money for a feature I can't use with material I use often! Plus, I have had to remake all my jigs from MDF.......! But now I'm losing confidence in MDF as well on the saw. When the break fires its very nerve racking........

  5. #4
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    That would really irk me. I would be getting on to the place you bought it from. Not much point in a saw so safe its no use as a saw.

    Regards
    John

  6. #5
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    That's bordering on not fit for purpose IMO

  7. #6
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    you know you can actually get in contact with the place you bought your saw stop from and they can check the cartridge and prove it was a non-contact fire and send you a free cartridge.

    they will also send you a free cartridge for some contact fires as well as long as it is not deliberate, i've had two free cartridges sent to me this way.

    this was through carbitec, the brisbane store has the gear to test the cartidges, i believe saw stop likes them and the data to be able to make sure settings they put in the cartridges are working correctly, its basically free QA for them. it even mentions being able to send the cartidges back in the manual.

    I'd definitely be getting in touch with who ever sold you the saw though and send them all the cartridges

  8. #7
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    I cut marine ply and mdf with mine when I had it. No problems.

  9. #8
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    Hi Wigwood,

    We (Men’s Shed) have the SS Pro Cabinet Saw. We’ve been cutting every and any kind of timber, ply, marine ply and composites on it for around 3-4 years without any problem. Only time we put the saw on bypass is if we really must cut some pretty wet timber.

    In the early days of having the saw we had three mystery firings of brake cartridges. Returned the cartridges through Carbatec and all three were replaced free. If I remember correctly the brake units were all from a batch where the trigger sensitivity was set too low. Sawstop themselves were great to deal with - this stuff is their lifeblood so they love to get misfires for analysis.

    Regards,

    Brian

  10. #9
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    Do they replace the blade as well?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernmc View Post
    I cut marine ply and mdf with mine when I had it. No problems.
    Same here. We use ours as though it were a normal saw, and have never had an issue.

    The only other thing to check is that you have correctly adjusted the spacing between the brake and blade. Regardless, I would contact both the seller and SawStop and get them to resolve the issue.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by havabeer69 View Post
    you know you can actually get in contact with the place you bought your saw stop from and they can check the cartridge and prove it was a non-contact fire and send you a free cartridge.

    they will also send you a free cartridge for some contact fires as well as long as it is not deliberate, i've had two free cartridges sent to me this way.

    this was through carbitec, the brisbane store has the gear to test the cartidges, i believe saw stop likes them and the data to be able to make sure settings they put in the cartridges are working correctly, its basically free QA for them. it even mentions being able to send the cartidges back in the manual.

    I'd definitely be getting in touch with who ever sold you the saw though and send them all the cartridges
    Thanks havabeer69, I purchased from Sydney CARBATEC and I have returned both cartridges for analysis which resulted in them saying that I had made contact with a conductive material. I disagreed. I then had the actual SAWSTOP rep visit my workshop to take a look at the saw and my setup, it was then I was informed not to use marine ply. CARBATEC replaced the cartridges both times, not the damaged saw blades though. CARBATEC have been great, that is not the problem. The problem is, I have had 3 breaks go on me in just over 6 months from no obvious reason and i have destroyed 3 saw blades and major interruptions from work flow and the associated running around to sort out new cartridges and new blades. I'm starting to think my saw has a bigger issue, maybe faulty....... just wanted to check if anyone else had dramas with MDF or odd experiences with the break going off. As you can see in the image, I was cross cutting on a MDF sled with seasoned silky oak. Otherwise the saw is brilliant, I just don't want to keep burning money on saw blades and the associated down time.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wigwood View Post
    SAWSTOP fires off again for no obvious reason. Using an MDF cross cut saw for mitre cuts on silky oak (see photo). 3rd time in just over six months. No conduct materials involved, had just completed that cut through. Same thing happened previous 2 time on sleds made from Marine Ply, was told not to use marine ply, changed to MDF sled, bang again!

    Anyone else having problems with SAWSTOP?

    Anyone else having problems with MDF?

    Or have I got a lemon?
    Is it Northern Silky Oak (Cardwellia sublimis)?


    Is that a white line of "inclusions" in the Northern Silky Oak?


    Cardwellia sublimis is known to present with at times substantial mineral inclusion of aluminium and magnesium salts and it is quite probable these inclusions are triggering the SawStops protection module.




    “White deposits occurred in isolated, randomly located vessels in areas of a Cardwellia sublimis sample. They were shown to contain aluminium cation with about one-tenth the amount of magnesium cation. Other studies have indicated the main salt to be the very insoluble aluminium succinate. Deposits may fill cross-sections of vessels which are only occasionally seen in association with ray parenchyma. It is concluded that the salts are formed at the pits of particular associations of ray parenchyma cells with vessels and the salts are then forced into the rest of the vessel.”

    Len Webb first reported a huge inclusion in about 1953.

    "ALUMINIUM succinate has been found as a massive deposit in a cavity in the heartwood of Cardwellia sublimis F. Muell. (Proteaceć), commonly known as northern silky oak or bull oak. This is a commercial timber tree restricted to the rain forests of tropical Queensland. The deposit occurred in a so-called ‘wind shake’ in a log from Jarra Creek near Tully, North Queensland. Inquiries from foresters and saw-millers indicate that such occurrences are rare. The log was about 10 ft. in girth, and the deposit apparently extended from the base to at least 25 ft. up the stem of the tree. A similar occurrence of aluminium succinate has been previously recorded1 in Orites excelsa R. Br. (Proteaceć), popularly known as silky oak or prickly ash, a timber tree of the subtropical rain forests of New South Wales. Basic aluminium succinate was also identified as a white deposit in the galleries of a longhorn beetle in timber of Qualea sp. (Vochysiaceć) from South America2."
    Mobyturns

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  14. #13
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    He's cut all the way through the timber so if what you suggest is the problem the technology didn't work very well.

    Very interesting though.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    Is it Northern Silky Oak (Cardwellia sublimis)?


    Is that a white line of "inclusions" in the Northern Silky Oak?


    Cardwellia sublimis is known to present with at times substantial mineral inclusion of aluminium and magnesium salts and it is quite probable these inclusions are triggering the SawStops protection module.




    “White deposits occurred in isolated, randomly located vessels in areas of a Cardwellia sublimis sample. They were shown to contain aluminium cation with about one-tenth the amount of magnesium cation. Other studies have indicated the main salt to be the very insoluble aluminium succinate. Deposits may fill cross-sections of vessels which are only occasionally seen in association with ray parenchyma. It is concluded that the salts are formed at the pits of particular associations of ray parenchyma cells with vessels and the salts are then forced into the rest of the vessel.”

    Len Webb first reported a huge inclusion in about 1953.

    "ALUMINIUM succinate has been found as a massive deposit in a cavity in the heartwood of Cardwellia sublimis F. Muell. (Proteaceć), commonly known as northern silky oak or bull oak. This is a commercial timber tree restricted to the rain forests of tropical Queensland. The deposit occurred in a so-called ‘wind shake’ in a log from Jarra Creek near Tully, North Queensland. Inquiries from foresters and saw-millers indicate that such occurrences are rare. The log was about 10 ft. in girth, and the deposit apparently extended from the base to at least 25 ft. up the stem of the tree. A similar occurrence of aluminium succinate has been previously recorded1 in Orites excelsa R. Br. (Proteaceć), popularly known as silky oak or prickly ash, a timber tree of the subtropical rain forests of New South Wales. Basic aluminium succinate was also identified as a white deposit in the galleries of a longhorn beetle in timber of Qualea sp. (Vochysiaceć) from South America2."

    would be interesting to touch the wood (and inclusion) on the side of the blade and see if it would be activated via the flashing red lights

  16. #15
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    I don't claim to have the answers, only raising a potential cause. It bothered me that the cut appeared to have been completed, but at this stage we are making assumptions about the sequence of events.

    When did the cartridge activation occur? Obviously not before the cut, but during the cut, immediately after, or some time after? What also may have contacted the blade etc.

    Until we build a body of knowledge / evidence and investigate potential "false triggering" scenarios then we are simply guessing. I believe that SawStop analyse the cartridge data to determine how / why the cartridge activated.

    From the Op's original comments the commonality appears to be silky oak.

    Unfortunately "false triggering" events undermine confidence in an otherwise very beneficial protection mechanism. The cost impost and other consequences encourage a user to bypass those beneficial features in some scenarios, perhaps even most which then reduces the "protection" offered by the system.

    We simply must build a body of knowledge / evidence to interpret what may be causing these events.
    Mobyturns

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