Thread: Seeking advice and experiences from those who completed a mature aged apprenticeship

I did two trades, one as a "normal" apprentice and the other straight after but still would class as mature age I guess. Over the years I have taken on many mature age apprentices with good results for both parties.
The big question is the pay cut - can you afford to live on a reduced wage for that length of time? Do you have alternative income? What are your liabilities (car payments, house payments, rent, etc etc? Have you dependents? All or any of these may well throw a spanner in the works sooner or later.
At thirty something years of age I would imagine you would be right in the danger zone, so would suggest you take your liability status very seriously.
Most of the mature age apprentices I have trained were either younger than you or quite a bit older. Most of the drop outs were between thirty and forty. In all of those cases it was their financial situation that gave them problems, not their lack enthusiasm or aptitude.
The other thing you may wish to consider is a traineeship or cadetship without the Tech course. The latter is important if you wish to obtain a trade certificate but there are many furniture and cabinetmakers out there that don't have a piece of paper. To be a Builder is a different matter but you have already indicated this is not your preference.
In recent years (since retirement) I have continued to make but on a much smaller scale. I have a few people who have expressed an interest in learning the finer side of thumb thumping and I have extended the opportunity to them. One chap in particular is very much like yourself and hates his office job with a passion. He lobs up here most weekends and knuckles in for a couple of days, which seems to be enough to chill him out to face the coming week. He reckons, without a bit of a wood fix he would have, by now, fixed his boss with a bit of wood!

I completed a mature age apprenticeship about 1 1/2 years ago. As mentioned above, the drop in wage is a big consideration to think over and discuss with your wife. Being mature age, it is a higher percentage but still needs to be considered.

There is a trade support loan available, (comparable to hecs), it can be used for anything, I put most of mine towards tool purchases, having a wife and young kids I wouldn't have been able to purchase many tools otherwise.

Apart from the boss, I enjoyed the learning involved and glad I did it. As with any job, the work place will impact the experience. Hopefully you get a good one.

I'm just finishing a mature age fitting and turning apprenticeship (after 10 years in furniture) and the guys above have basically summed it up: can you afford it? The current award (effective from 13 Nov 2020) is here
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Some employers may prefer adult apprentices, despite having to pay them significantly more, because they're taking on someone who really wants to be there. Just remember that once you're in a production environment, the "romantic" aspect of woodwork (basically, hand tool work) is not something you'll generally do much of in most places; you're there to make money and planing/scraping a table top by hand is not the way to turn a profit.

Thanks all for the feedback!

Seems as though the consensus is that the money is the biggest consideration to take. I'm very fortunate that I bought my house years ago when house prices here in Tas were super low so I would still be able to manage my financial commitments with repayments. Thankfully I have next to no other debts aside from my mortgage.

I have 3 kids (8,5 and almost 2) which I am considering as well, making sure they're all taken care of. I'm lucky that I have a few extra avenues of income available to me (I'm a musician on the side and have been playing professionally for 15 years now) that I can look to for further money if needed.

The thing I keep asking myself is the one that many of us ask ourselves, can I continue working doing something I dislike and feeling like my soul isn't being fulfilled all for the sake of a pay cheque. I also look at the end result, that once qualified I would be back making similar if not more money than I was previously and can work in a number of different capacities rather than being tied to a desk.

Guess I still have a lot more thinking to do! More feedback welcome from anyone cheers guys

Dave, what you dream about is probably common to many amateur woodworkers - the desire to take a passion and run with it. We only live once, and I suggest that you do find a better outlet than you have at this time. Life requires a balance between work and pleasure. Woodworkers tend to be creative types, and you need a way to express this.

For most, including myself, it is enough that woodworking remains a hobby. However, I do have a daytime job that is satisfying, and there is no way I could earn from woodworking to meet the responsibilities I have. So my balance is to keep it as a hobby, and afford the tools I want.

If I were in your situation, the first priority would me to have the full - FULL! - agreement of my wife. You are a team, and this is a decision you make together ... sacrifices, future plans, etc. You appear to have a big advantage here already, in the form of a FIL in the trade. Not only is there potential work, but your wife has grown up with this scenario. It is one she understands and likely has the ability to project the family - especially the care of the kids (which is a priority) - into the foreseeable future. So, sit down with her are nut out a plan together.

Regards from Perth

Derek

not wanting to put a dampener on your thoughts and dreams but

why go for apprenticeship? Not being flippant but what advantage would this give you. As you are already spending time in FILs place, would he take you on as a labourer/sidekick/gogetter etc.

Another question, yes you hate your job, did you hate it when you first started? You love working with wood, we all do but would you still enjoy it if you were doing it full time. Especially when a lot of it is repetitious.

I also love timber and years ago got a job in furniture factory, dining tables, coffee tables bedheads etc etc after 3 years I was ready to kill somebody, all the same day in day out. We then moved to Pt Lincoln and I visited Constantia Furniture (do a google and die) 95% is all hand made/crafted, friggen hell, they then offered me a job as a handman, I would have taken it but burnt once didnt want the same again. Ironically, met the boss 18 months ago and was told the offer was still there... Life was too busy & exciting.

So again I ask the questions,
is this change od direction just cause you hate your present job?
would moving to a different firm doing the same help?
Could you work full time with FIL if opportunity arose?

Incredibly insightful advice offered, Dave, especially from Elan and Derek.

Derek is a very talented designer and maker and his work would command top 5% prices; certainly not the stuff you see in HN, Freedom or Ikia. How that translates in terms of potential earnings per hour is a very different question.

But very few joiners and woodworkers actually work professionally in that tiny high end craft segment. Most work in industrial settings and, I hope I do not insult Elan, could be regarded as "machine watchers". Elan mentioned adult apprenticeship wages; here are the adult tradesmans wage rates:

Award Wages.jpg

Very few in the woodworking trades earn significantly more than these award wages. They are substantially below the national average weekly earnings of $1,713.90.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-work-hours/average-weekly-earnings-australia/latest-release

If you work for someone else, how would your family fare on that wage level? That is a very critical question.


PS: Anyone know how I managed to post the attachment twice, and how to fix the error?

Originally Posted by Tonyz

not wanting to put a dampener on your thoughts and dreams but

why go for apprenticeship? Not being flippant but what advantage would this give you. As you are already spending time in FILs place, would he take you on as a labourer/sidekick/gogetter etc.

Another question, yes you hate your job, did you hate it when you first started? You love working with wood, we all do but would you still enjoy it if you were doing it full time. Especially when a lot of it is repetitious.

I also love timber and years ago got a job in furniture factory, dining tables, coffee tables bedheads etc etc after 3 years I was ready to kill somebody, all the same day in day out. We then moved to Pt Lincoln and I visited Constantia Furniture (do a google and die) 95% is all hand made/crafted, friggen hell, they then offered me a job as a handman, I would have taken it but burnt once didnt want the same again. Ironically, met the boss 18 months ago and was told the offer was still there... Life was too busy & exciting.

So again I ask the questions,
is this change od direction just cause you hate your present job?
would moving to a different firm doing the same help?
Could you work full time with FIL if opportunity arose?

Tony

I was about to raise the same questions. You have pretty much done it for me.

Performing a task all day long can remove the appreciation of the basic concept. Kitchen building, as I am sure Dave will appreciate revolves around cutting out on a CNC machine, after first gaining approval of a design from the client, and then assembling in the workshop. Final job is installation. Other forms of cabinetry are not too dissimilar on a commercial basis. Also I would pick up on Derek's comment that you should have SWMBO fully onside. I went down this path myself some twenty years ago and while it was far from the sole reason for the ultimate failure of my venture, a lack of support from the other half was quite debilitating and a long way from helpful.

A soul destroying job is also a poor situation so you will have to balance out the pros and cons.

Good luck.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Tonyz

So again I ask the questions,
is this change od direction just cause you hate your present job?
would moving to a different firm doing the same help?
Could you work full time with FIL if opportunity arose?

Thanks mate.

The change is something I've actually been thinking about for years of working in offices and wanting to look at getting into a trade. I don't think moving to a new job or office would help as it would be just another office that I'd sit in wanting to get into something else!

I had strongly considered talking to the FIL about whether he'd be willing to give me a chance to work alongside him for a few years with the view that when he looks to retire in a few years that I could potentially take on the business for him to keep it going and he can still play a part in things as much or as little as he wants to.

I appreciate everyone's feedback so far, keep it coming. Hopefully this thread helps out some others in the same boat

Sounds like you are ready to rock and roll. Has FIL trained apprentices before? If not, it may be a steep learning curve for both of you. Good tradesmen don't always make good teachers. At least you have worked together in the past so you both should know how the other ticks.
Dereks point about involving the Misses is imperative. She will be carrying the can.
Please keep in mind;EVERY apprentice, sooner or later, wishes he had done something else. Not always for the same reasons but ALWAYS nonetheless. Focus on the future, that's why you are making this sacrifice now.
Gods speed and best of luck.

My 2 cents coming from a tradesman and a business owner who has taken on a number of apprentices over the years

Firstly
If you don’t like your current career get out of it and do something else, life is too short for that sort of crap. Be mindful of earning capacity and the impact on you / your families life. Perhaps woodworking might be a better fit for you as a hobby and there is another type of career that you will also enjoy that you are able to be better off financially maybe, maybe not?
Number 2
Nobody cares about your little piece of paper with tradesman written on it, I have never asked for one in all my years as an employer nor have I ever been asked to show mine from any clients. There are that many qualified numpties out there that have no idea what they are doing, the most important thing for an employer is you know what you are doing and your workmanship shows that. The current training program for apprentices is a joke.
If you have the opportunity rather than going through the official route just work in the industry and gain the knowledge and skills that will allow you to run your own little specialist workshop business.
I appreciate that this last suggestion may not sit well with you or others which is fine, I am just throwing it out there

The main point though is find a job you are happy with

Thanks again to everyone.

Beardy - Very interesting comment around nobody caring about the qualification..............I would have though that you wouldn't be able to get a job as a cabinet maker or carpenter with out. I guess if you're out on your own you can get away with it! I guess though it is the difference between being a handyman vs a qualified tradesman.

I still have a lot to think about and I am fortunate to a degree that the money side of things isn't actually the worst result for me, it will make things a little harder in the short term, but there's an end goal in sight that would see me earning more than I am now once qualified.

Appreciate everyone's views and perspective as there were some things mentioned here I hadn't considered!

Originally Posted by davewicks28

Thanks again to everyone.

Beardy - Very interesting comment around nobody caring about the qualification..............I would have though that you wouldn't be able to get a job as a cabinet maker or carpenter with out. I guess if you're out on your own you can get away with it! I guess though it is the difference between being a handyman vs a qualified tradesman.

WEstill have a lot to think about and WE fortunate to a degree that the money side of things isn't actually the worst result for me, it will make things a little harder in the short term, but there's an end goal in sight that would see me earning more than I am now once qualified.

Appreciate everyone's views and perspective as there were some things mentioned here WE hadn't considered!

I have edited your comments, your wife needs to give her full understanding and approval to any step forward. Have her talk to her dad, get her to ask and understand from him the ins and outs.

Seriously man, I have seen too many relationships flounder and get nasty due to lack of communication and UNDERSTANDING. on the other side of the coin, where does she herself? is she happy in her job? do you plan children? how will her loss of income affect your lifestyle.

Please mate I am dead bloody serious.

Hi
I teach mature joinery/cabinetmaking/furniture making apprentices at a large Australian TAFE.
I see and have the same in depth conversations with students and unfortunately many mature students come into the trade for the wrong reasons. Like any job it will become boring/repetitive and you will have at times very difficult clients unfortunately to deal with. On the positive side, its a great trade and from my own personal experience has been very rewarding and enjoyable.
My best advice is to go into the trade for the right reason. Money should not be your number one reason as you will be very disappointed. Yes you can earn good money at times as well a great job satisfaction. I have never been unemployed and have travelled the world in my trade, so for me personally, it has been great.

From my experience mature age apprentices are easier to teach due to their maturity, but do tend to get impatient with themselves and want to run before they can walk, they also feel that they should be able to do what is required of them, for example, eye- hand coordination and being able to 'see' what they have to make before they have made it can be very frustrating for mature apprentices.

However having said what I have said, go for it and with the right attitude, your love it, but be easy on yourself and remember practice makes perfect.

Kevin