Thread: Shaker style cabinets - joinery options

option 1 is not the way to do it . With no joints in the rails and stiles they will crack .
Panels should float in a frame not be glued in . Although you can get away with doing it with ply, just butting the rails and stiles is not a good idea. Biscuit join the frame and rout for the panel maybe .
Option 2 is the better way of the two . Do you have an inverted router , set into a table?
With one of those and a slot cutter you can quickly create the groove and tenon's on the ends of the rails.
A standard cutter , the one I have cuts 14mm deep x 6.5mm if your ply is 6.5 or thicker it works .

I am shortly to embark on a kitchen renovation, and we will also be using Shaker style doors to replace the original raised panels type. I am using solid wood throughout, possibly either US Maple or Eurpean Beech.

Although I am a traditionalist when it comes to the furniture I build, the idea of mortice and tenon joints for 25 doors seems a bit too much work. So I have purchased a Festool Domino machine, and will use this to join the rails and styles. Nevertheless, the panel will float and, essentially, the construction follows traditional rules. This is necessary, otherwise moisture and heat in the kitchen will create enough movement for the joints to self-destruct.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have done many doors as option 1,using biscuits to join the frame,but didn't glue the plywood,I used small mouldings to hold the plywood in.
If you are staining I got a very neat job by staining the frame and plywood separately,this allows you to sand and stain without having to get into the corners .
Takes a bit longer than glueing but I think it is well worth the extra time

Thanks guys,

So no question then that the panel has to float. Interesting idea on the mouldings nrb, I'll definitely consider that.

I'll look into a joiner - I think the Dewalt would be more in my budget than the Festool but seeing as I have a table saw with dado blades, I'll probably end up sticking to the mortis and tenons for this.

Thankfully the kitchen isn't too large and there's only 8 doors and 10 drawers.

I should also ask - for the inset should I be using plywood or MDF? These will be painted and not stained. I believe the MDF will give a better finish painted?

The panel does not need to float if it is MDF.
I would use ply because you will see a difference in texture from the frames and the panels using MDF
Another method could be to use MDF for the whole door,this way you will have the same look and you will get a smoother finish than timber and MDF
I have done doors fully using MDF,also this way gives you doors that are perfectly flat.
A bit of work but comes up great,start with MDF the size of you finished doors,cut out the centre to make a frame of the size you want (I made a jig as I had 8 to make so I could rout the centre out,then square out the corners with a chisel)
Then rout a rebate in the back to take the panel glue in the panel with 3mm MDF then paint
The last time I did this was for glass filled doors on a display cabinet, some waste with the cut out bit but these went into stock for future jobs.

Thanks NRB.

So many options! As you can probably tell I'm very new to this and there seems to be 1,000 solutions to each 'problem'.

Instead of cutting out the centre of the MDF, could you have one thinner peice of MDF for the door and then laminate rails and stiles on top of that for the 'shaker' look?

Are the doors to be painted all over...?

I've done a few of these, (like over 150 now)
Cottage Kitchen.jpgshoalwater.jpg















12mm MRMDF cut to 10mm over size
6mm MDF (as it does not come in MR), cut to the width of your "rail and stile" + 5mm
Then glue and 15mm brad the rail and stile on. just two of three only to hold in place. Use body filler/builders bog for the holes. Somehow for me the Timbermate seems to keep on shrinking. Makes no sense but it's what I have experienced...
Then trim to size
I laminate the backs with liner laminate and contact adhesive. $45 gets me a 4m x 1.2m roll.
Then run the laminate trimmer around the edge of the back and a 3mm roundover bit on the fronts.
Mask the laminate,
2 coats of oil based primer, MUST be oil based, or the 6mm will play up, light sand between each as per SOPs
2-3 coats of satin enamel,
Drill hinge holes.

For glass ones same idea but use strips of the 12mm that are 5mm less wide than the rail and stile, and joint with a 0 biscuit at 90 degrees to the rail and stile layout, so the joints are not over one another.
Then glue and brad the 6mm over the top. I also laminate the backs of these with a single piece laid over, and a small flush cut bit to follow the inside of the opening, and a file to finish the inside corners..

I found it important to make them oversized and then trim. I get a better edge result ie: no step or gap. Getting right down to the nitty gritty, I also make my two stiles every so slightly smaller than the backing board, this makes sure I
don't have overhang when trimming to final size..


These doors/panels are made from 92mm MRMDF moulding I buy in 5.4m lengths using a cutter of my own design... It has a 9mm rebate in the back into which I glue a 9mm MDF panel. I also have them do some 130mm wide strips with the moulding run on both sides..all the corners are mitred, and glued with biscuits and narrow crown staples to hold in place while the glue dries..

The rangehood is made using the two kinds of moulding...glued up and attached to a small cross section meranti frame for solidity.
The centre bumpout holds the range hood fan and can "slide out" for connections or repair.

Sing out if I can help in anyway...

IMG_20150419_171322.jpg

They look fantastic, David. Yes, i was intending to paint mine all over.

Can I ask what the purpose of the laminate adhesive is that you put on the back of the doors? Is it to assist with reducing warping as you're only laminating two pieces of MDF together instead of three?

I laminate the inside because

It's a hardwearing surface that's easy to keep clean.
It presents really well, you could say it looks "pro", and something that nobody else does.
It's one less surface to sand and paint, and when you're doing 40 or so that matters + you cannot paint two sides at the same time..timewise I reckon it saves me a heap...

I only laminate the doors/drawers, not the matching end panels

I charge twice the going rate from the M kitchen door pricelist, for the same size door, (primed only, extra for painted) so presentation is important

Not sure it helps with warping. I always get one door per build that warps...and it's random...That last photo had 4 that warped, all the corner cabinet doors..interestingly I have seen the routed from 18mm MRMDF doors with warps as well..
It's important to get the primer on straight after the laminate too. And not sure why you think 3 would not warp?

Originally I started doing it to cover the glued in panels for the style of doors in the last photo. The back of those aren't pretty...

Years ago I worked for a kitchen company that did upmarket kitchens and other cabinetry installing all their gear on site. Sometimes they bought in their doors like American Oak from other companies but for painted doors they made their own. All their raised panel and shaker centre panels were cut 3mm all round undersized and 50mm lengths of small rubber tubing used to centre them. This way the centre panel could expand and contract a few mm as the moisture levels changed in the kitchen. Just something to consider.

Stewie

Thanks Stewie

Can I ask a general question - what is preferrable for kitchen cabinets - Melamine MDF or Melamine particleboard? I would think the MDF would be a bit easier to work with and there'd be less chipout when cutting?

Apart from the timber doors they they bought in, the mdf doors that they sometimes bought from door companies were usually just normal mdf. When they made their own though they seemed to prefer using melamine coated mdf. To be honest I don't really know why. Both surfaces seemed to take poly paint equally well with a similar result. Chipping was never a problem as the rails, stiles and panels of the doors were done on a spindle moulder then after glueing up were trimmed to the final size with the scribe saw.

Stewie