Thread: Saw sharpening

Originally Posted by steve54123alt

I just learnt to sharpen saws!!!

Good on you, Steve.
Maybe it's a little bit premature to say you've learnt to sharpen saws after the 3rd go?
But you've certainly done the hardest bit, which is to give it a serious try.
And for anyone who's eyes are being chronologically challened like mine, I got the best saw-sharpening aid at the wood show last May - one of those cheap magnifiers on a headband. With the 5X lens, I saw I'd made a few 'cows and calves' amongst the teeth on my favourite little 17 point from my last sharpening. Fortunately, even a less than perfect filing job is better than a dull saw.
So give it a go, fellas - follow Steve's example, and if more of you start buying files, I might be able to get 4" DEST files at the local hardware store again!
Avagooday,

Originally Posted by From the link

The rule of thumb I use is that it a saw is really dull requiring teeth to be reshaped and filed, plan on only using one cutting edge per saw. If the saw only need a light touch up, then you may be able to get two saws sharpened per cutting edge. If your file makes a loud screeching sound when you use it--it is telling you that it is dull and that you should switch to a fresh edge. Saw files are so inexpensive, that there is no reason to try to use a single file to sharpen 10 saws.

Were they throwing their files away after 9 sharpens back in the old days? I'd like to think a decent file would last a bit longer than that...

Originally Posted by silentC

Were they throwing their files away after 9 sharpens back in the old days? I'd like to think a decent file would last a bit longer than that...

You have to remember Silent, he's from a nation that seems to think there's no finite limit to the earth's natural resources...
I've never kept count of how many saws a file will get through. There are so many variables in the number of teeth per saw, that would have to be a rather rough rule of thumb, and I suppose that's all it's meant to be. But with even 4" files going for near ten bucks apiece at the local, I make 'em earn their keep - let them screech and complain.
I spent a couple of years in cane paddocks, back when I was much younger and a little bit sillier than I am now, and I can confidently report that a good old Nicholson would remove an inch or more of metal off a cane-knife before it gave up, alright!

Ah so Mister Sirent, want to have a go at my Japanese saws?

My Grandfather used to sharpen his own saws and I couldn't imagine him buying a new file every 10, 15, or even 100 sharpens unless he really had to. But then we are talking about a man who used to remove old nails from timber and meticulously straighten them for reuse.

Actually my Dad likes to tell us how his father once made him and his sister a ping pong table, which apparently they didn't use often enough because they came home one day to discover it had been nailed vertically between two verandah posts as part of the new 'extension'. He also confiscated Dad's billy cart and nailed it to a post for a mailbox. Probably explains some of my Dad's behaviour

But I digress. I bought a tenon saw at a market recently and picked up a Sandvik double extra slim and had a go at it. I didn't really know what I was doing but I filed the teeth by eye with fleam (even though I didn't know that's what it was called) and no set. It cross cuts pretty cleanly but is useless for rip cuts. I thought having little or no set plus the fleam would give it a narrow kerf.

Do you reckon it's worth having a couple of different tenon saws with different tooth set up, or is there a pretty good compromise that you can use for general use?

Originally Posted by Termite

Ah so Mister Sirent, want to have a go at my Japanese saws?

I discovered how easily the blades on those suckers kink the other day :mad:

=silentC]
Do you reckon it's worth having a couple of different tenon saws with different tooth set up, or is there a pretty good compromise that you can use for general use?

How about a band saw?

Originally Posted by craigb

How about a band saw?

With or without a sausage making attachment?

Originally Posted by silentC

Do you reckon it's worth having a couple of different tenon saws with different tooth set up, or is there a pretty good compromise that you can use for general use?

Yes, definetly. I'm one of the old school who learned to sharpen saws early in my apprenticeship and one of the handiest old saws I have is a 10pt panel saw with a bit more hook than usual, goes through pineboard/mdf like butter and makes a handy little ripper as well.
So if you have a need for a special type of cutting, I encourage you to fine tune your saws to suit.

Originally Posted by silentC

Do you reckon it's worth having a couple of different tenon saws with different tooth set up, or is there a pretty good compromise that you can use for general use?

Dunno Silent - I have 4 'backed' saws, which I have set up to do specific jobs well, but because of my notas-goodas-it-usterbe sharpening, it varies on just how well each one performs after the latest sharpening. So I often find myself using the same saw for both crosscutting and ripping, when it's supposed to be optimised for one of those operations only...
I would also say that this minimum set recommendation needs to be applied with care. As long as you are only cutting shallow cuts, minimum set is fine, but if you are trying to make deeper cuts, particularly in woods that are at the high end of moisture content, yeah, you soon find what a binding saw feels like. I've only recently (well about 6 yrs ago) converted to the rip pattern/barely-set teeth on my dovetail saw (abt 15 points), and it works really well in most woods, but only to about an inch or so deep. With no set, if you get a bit off track, it's virtually impossible to compensate, whereas with plenty of set, you can easily 'steer' a saw back on track.
The other little well-worn saw (2nd pic) is a cheapie I picked up more than 25 years ago, and has been well-used, as you can see. It came with a pretty crappy handle, and I put the walnut one on one day when I was obviously avoiding doing something. I've filed it many, many times, and the current tooth pattern is sort of intermediate between rip and crosscut. It works best for shallow crosscutting, and is more manouverable because of the set (cow of a thing to set with such fine teeth - I use the screwdriver method on it).
So sharpening saws is probably just like everthing else we do - subject to individual prefernces and skill levels, and who taught you in the first place. In my case, it was my dad, who I watched many times as a kid.
He would sharpen a 6 foot crosscut tipped up in a kerf in the log we were attacking, after setting it with a hammer and the nearest steel splitting wedge as an anvil. It was an impressive demonstration of skill born of long practice!

I'd better try and pick up a few old cheapies and have a fiddle then. Fortunately I can't afford one of them expensive looking jobs with the brass back, so I don't have to worry about stuffing it up

Originally Posted by silentC

I'd better try and pick up a few old cheapies and have a fiddle then. Fortunately I can't afford one of them expensive looking jobs with the brass back, so I don't have to worry about stuffing it up

Brass, smass - don't see that there's any difference other than appearance. The little well-worn thing on the right of my last posting cost me all of about $4 (new!). It just happens to be a happy combination of blade thickness and general heft that makes it a pleasure to use. The other saw cost me 10 times that, and is no better, just a bit bigger and heavier, which makes it more suited to some jobs than the little one, which gets used almost as much as the other 3 I have, put together.
There are still a few nice old saws out there to be picked up for very reasonable prices if you're in the right place at the right time. (The handle is a pretty good guide to quality on the older ones. The things they are putting on saws now are a travesty - even the much-vaunted LN/Independence thing has what I'd call a pretty crude excuse of a handle). Get a half-decent saw for a few dollars, file it up and put a nice, comfy handle on it. Wot with your hand planes and saw-filing skills, Silent me lad, you're plunging into the void of this dark side with increasing momentum!
Cheers,

you're plunging into the void of this dark side with increasing momentum!

Is there nothing that can be done?

Originally Posted by silentC

Is there nothing that can be done?

'Fraid not.