Thread: Sharpening

Hangfire, I will be blunt ... all those machines are total cr@p for lathe chisels. They are slow, very slow. Also very under-powered.

Lathe chisels are generally made from a high speed steel, which is able to withstand the heat generated by fast-turning grinders. Those wet, slow grinders are for bench chisels and bench planes made of steel that is vulnerable to heat.

If you want the best bang for your buck, get a 6" bench grinder (usually around 1/2 hp) and a 180 grit CBN wheel (they are all the same - so check out the cheapies from China - that's where they are all made, so either you import one or you get one locally). You can spend more on the bench grinder (mine is 8" and half-speed, and I have two CBN wheels), but now you are into Tormek money.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Assuming you are wishing to sharpen wood turning gouges, nothing you have listed as bought, will allow you to use them for sharpening woodturning tools; in general. You will require some turning tool jig(s) if you wish to go that route.

Almost all of these units will be able to use Tormek jigs. which are not that cheap but they are very good.

I have a Tormek, I agree it is really expensive, there are cheaper alternatives, but by heavens it works very well for razor sharp tools.

One alternative is to put a white wheel on a 203mm bench grinder, then you have a few options that work very well. All of the wet stone sharpening systems, are just that, sharpening systems. While one can shape steel, they take forever, sharpening an already shaped tool is where they are at.

To that end I whacked a white wheel on the end of my bench grinder, then added a Tormek bar system and I was away like a rabbit for any shaping and as a bonus, sharpening of some very large scrapers.

Using my extensive array of Tormek turning tool jigs, I can pretty much do anything.

There are other sharpening jigs that attach to bench grinders, I have used them but not extensively, I'll let others word you up about them.

The cheapest alternative is to learn to freehand tool sharpening, not that hard, but using jigs is very good for maintaining a stable sharp repeatable edge.

Mick.

is this the kind of thing that you mean?
Carbatec 750W (1HP) 200mm Low Speed Bench Grinder | Carbatec

then:
Tormek Bench Grinder Mounting Kit | Carbatec
Carbatec Spindle & Gouge Sharpening System | Carbatec
something like one of those?

all adds up fast

whoever said woodwork was a cheap hobby?

Originally Posted by Hangfire

is this the kind of thing that you mean?
Carbatec 750W (1HP) 200mm Low Speed Bench Grinder | Carbatec

then:
Tormek Bench Grinder Mounting Kit | Carbatec
Carbatec Spindle & Gouge Sharpening System | Carbatec
something like one of those?

all adds up fast

whoever said woodwork was a cheap hobby?

Yes to both. That would be the expensive system I mentioned. A 6" grinder + Tormek BGM-100 + 180 grit CBN wheel (180 grit is a good all rounder) is the cost-effective high-end system.

The Tormek "bar" is called the BGM-100. See here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ngNirvana.html

My system is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ningSetUp.html Note that this is geared for bench blades.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Hangfire

whoever said woodwork was a cheap hobby?

Turning is not cheap.

I use a Tormek, because repeatability and speed of honing is the key to efficient turning of jobs. I am not a pro, there are a few on this board, but I have trained with professional turners and the mentality of time is money has rubbed off.

I also have a A&A 6" grinder with #80 & #180 grit cbn's for grinding tools - either new tools to shapes I prefer or regrinding "dropped" tools for mates. I use the BGM-100 on that grinder so I can go from the 6" to the Tormek.

I have used the "Wolverine" system on white and cbn wheels, good for exclusively turning tools, that's another option. As mentioned above, hand grinding is a learnable skill, but I suggest getting lessons from a competent teacher, as it a skill set that requires instruction and practice, like most woodworking skills. That will save you hours of frustration and tool steel. DAMHIKT!

Hangfire,

I'm only replying to tell you that everything stated below is correct and I re-iterate from bitter experience holding off.

The one thing I would add is that where I think the Tormek really shines is re-sharpening. When you get going in woodturning you will want to refresh your edge frequently.

The standard (supergrind, SG) wheel is terrible for shaping or re-profiling but the jigs and process for re-sharpening turning tools (when you merely want to take a whisker off) is just magic. I strongly consider those who discount the SG wheel (me, until it clicked) have not realised that you stop using the setting jigs or measuring angles for resharpening, but the sharpie method or similar to get you *right on* the existing bevel and then refresh that. When you do that, bingo.

I have a Tormek and a bench grinder with CBN wheel next to each other. The Tormek with the SG wheel is for re-sharpening turning tools that are merely dull, plus other odd jobs on general woodworking tools (such as drill bits, very narrow chisels, cutters etc). The CBN wheel is for re-profiling or dealing with nicks. Roughly, the cut-off is any edge damage visible to the naked eye.

Originally Posted by Hangfire

Hi all,

starting to consider a sharpening system so i can get chisels for the lathe - been using carbides and would like to try a gouge etc.

aldi have this offering
ALDI Australia - Shop Online $199

Hare and Forbes have similar units
W868 - TiGer 2500 Wetstone Grinder | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse $319
W859 - TiGer 2000S Wetstone Grinder | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse $242

Timbecon has this
https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...variable-speed $349

being able to sharpen knives etc would be good, all say they can do it.

i got a very varied response when i asked on facebook - some said they were looking forward to the aldi unit, 1 guy said that anything from sheppach would be a waste of time as the stones are not trued...

tormek is way out of any realistic budget - and they just dont come up second hand - so i am looking more at the lower end of the market - timbecon would be pushing the budget to an extreme amount as i was hoping to buy a nice chisel or 2....

does anyone have any of these things?

One thing I would foonote in respect of cost is that once you are up and running, it is very cheap with in terms of material if you are doing spindle turnings or have a bandsaw.

Found wood, fire wood, tree down anywhere. You need no milling machinery, just a setup that can mount it and not kill you until you rough it down

Originally Posted by Pat

Turning is not cheap.
....

Raffan is the most pragmatic turner I know.
you would do well to copy his equipment Richard Raffan shapes and sharpens a bowl gouge - YouTube

In fact use the link to watch all his videos

T91

I agree with Derek, too slow for grinding turning tools. Good for bench chisels and knives. I use a Tiger with Tormac jigs. For HSS and harder turning tools I prefer a normal bench grinder.

Originally Posted by rustynail

I agree with Derek, too slow for grinding turning tools. Good for bench chisels and knives. I use a Tiger with Tormac jigs. For HSS and harder turning tools I prefer a normal bench grinder.

I am blown away by the variety and cost of sharpening jigs on the market and the great expense people are willing to pay to get their tools sharp. I prefer using hand tools in my all woodworking and I like to keep my tools sharp. I do all the sharpening of my handsaws, plane irons, chisels, lathe tools, and any other edge tools, freehand with a combination of bench grinder, belt sander, oil and water stones, and also sandpaper. I've never used any kind of sharpening jig and can achieve razor sharp edges just with freehand sharpening. Anyone can do it, all it takes is practice in how to hold the tool so that you achieve muscle memory regarding the various angles and pressures. I can't see the sense in paying $200 for a jig when the same result can be achieved freehand with a bit of practice.

Originally Posted by redx

I am blown away by the variety and cost of sharpening jigs on the market and the great expense people are willing to pay to get their tools sharp. I prefer using hand tools in my all woodworking and I like to keep my tools sharp. I do all the sharpening of my handsaws, plane irons, chisels, lathe tools, and any other edge tools, freehand with a combination of bench grinder, belt sander, oil and water stones, and also sandpaper. I've never used any kind of sharpening jig and can achieve razor sharp edges just with freehand sharpening. Anyone can do it, all it takes is practice in how to hold the tool so that you achieve muscle memory regarding the various angles and pressures. I can't see the sense in paying $200 for a jig when the same result can be achieved freehand with a bit of practice.

I can do a decent job of freehand sharpening, but my OCD likes perfectly flat bevels so I use a jig. If you can do that free hand, more power to you

I have issues remembering all the bevels across different types of blades from all my HNT planes, hollows and rounds, wood turning chisels, bench chisels etc quite a collection when you primarily hand tool operator. Tormek T8 helps with my consistency and the additional toolkits it has. Worth the cost for my piece of mind in my eyes

Cheers
Nathan

I do not turn, nor do I have gouges. I do have a Tormek. I also designed the new (10+ years ago) jig that holds the chisel square to the wheel.

A few points.
The wheel needs to be square to the bar. Tormek offers a diamond truing tool is available for this and works exceptionally well.
The grading the wheel process is simple and necessary. You use the rough wheel to get the shape and then grade the wheel to do the sharpening.
The leather hone puts the final edge on the tool. Wet stones may be used in place of the hone.
Using wet stones will give bench chisels the appearance of a double bevel, but it is not.
The whole thing with any bar sharpening system are the jigs. Check the diameter of the bar on the desired system and compare to the Tormek.
The diameters must be IDENTICAL.
Tormek has a superb selection of jigs.
The wheel MUST be wet to be used. Do not store the wheel in water. Run the wheel wet for 20-30 minutes before starting a session. After the session let the wheel spin dry for 20 minutes or so. This will prevent the 'egging' of the wheel.

The Tormek is $800US on Amazon. Or about $1100AU.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

If you want the best bang for your buck, get a 6" bench grinder (usually around 1/2 hp) and a 180 grit CBN wheel (they are all the same - so check out the cheapies from China - that's where they are all made, so either you import one or you get one locally).

If sharpening turning tools is your primary need then that is good advice from Derek.

I sharpen turning tools... many and often!

I use CBN wheels on 8" bench grinders to sharpen them.

I also occasionally freehand rehab knives on the CBN wheel.

Any flatwork tools (chisels and plane blades) I sharpen on flat waterstones.

I have never owned a Torment, but each to their own. For my money I would prefer to buy another bench grinder and mount some other CBN grits sizes.

If you can't immediately afford to buy jigs for your tuning gouges, there is a DIY gouge jig sticky over in the Woodturning forum.

In addition to the good advice from T91 to take the opportunity to view as many of Richard Raffan's videos as you can, you will also get some input over in the woodturning forum on minimal tool required to get you started on your turning venture.