Thread: new way of sharpening chisels

Hi Les,

Is the chisel orientated horizontally or vertically to the supporting table?

It appears, that the WorkSharp cannot accommodate wider plane blades.

Zelk

What is the rotating speed of the sander? I'd be cautious about a high speed overheading the edge.

Originally Posted by les88

I saw the Work Sharp sharpening system and thought I need that. But the machine is an over kill, as I only have 5 chisels a block plane and a smoother plane blades to sharpen.
I have a 12 inch disk sander so I cut a block of timber so that the angle to the disk was at 25deg. clamped that to the sander bench screwed a stop at 90deg to rest the blades against and it works a treat.
les

Please post some pics, Les. Thanks!
Michael

I would be cautious of the speed at which a disk sander spins, especially the outer side of a 12" disk. This can burn steel.

Having said that, I sharpen lathe chisels on a disk sander - however these are HSS.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I will post some pics tomorrow. Derek the blades get from warm to hot, a 1/4 inch chisel did burn but it was way out of shape and needed a lot cut off. Now that the chisel is at
25 degs it only needs a second to sharpen and off course you could have a container of water to keep dunking them in.
les

I will be intrested to see the pics. Over a year ago there was a thread on here using a belt sander to sharpen tools. I used it for a while and it worked fine to get a primary bevel. When wet wheel sharpeners got to a reasonable price I got one of them. The sander worked ok but it was a pita having to change belts every time I had something to sharpen.
Regards
John

Hi John

There are grinders and there are sharpeners. There are only two machines that I know of that are marketed as both. These use a slow speed disk sander and have serious - very serious - engineering to hold the blade steady at the slow speeds involved (a couple of hundred rpm). Oh, there is the Work Sharp, mentioned earlier, but it does have limitations in regard to (fixed) bevel angles.

All else are really grinders. Dry grinders, wet grinders, belt sander grinders ... They do not sharpen. All they do is create a primary bevel.

A few years ago I developed a jig for a belt sander. It is an excellent grinder. It was published in FWW. I still use it, as do many here. But it is not a sharpener. I only use either a 80 or a 120 grit belt. Nothing to change.

Sharp occurs after I hone on waterstones. Usually to 12000 grit. If you are doing your honing on sandpaper, you need to go to 2000 at least. 800 is not going to cut it

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

..................

Sharp occurs after I hone on waterstones. Usually to 12000 grit. If you are doing your honing on sandpaper, you need to go to 2000 at least. 800 is not going to cut it

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

May I ask what are these grit sizes you and others are referring to? I am not sure whether I am the only one who struggles to work out what people refer to when only the numbers are given without stating the standards these numbers come from. If and when I read an article I assume the numbers relate to the standard used in the country of origin that is USA, Europe, Japan. However, here on the forum I am unable to use this as a guidleline for obvious reasons. Apologies if this is clear to everyone else, but me.

To my knowledge, waterstones are generally if not always in JIS (Japanese standard), though there are European waterstones too.

The 800 and 2000 sandpaper (whether they wet and/or dry) could be ANSI/CAMI from USA or FEPA from Europe. If from Europe they could be P800, P2000 or F800, F2000. And of course they are ALL different grit sizes.

What I mean is that P800 is 22 micron, F800 is 6.5 micron while 800 (USA) is between the two at 12 micron. Similarly, P2000 paper is about 10.3 micron, F2000 paper is 1.2 micron and 2000 sandpaper from USA has 1 micron size grit. To my knowledge an 8000 grit Japanese waterstone is also 1.2 micron. A 12000 grit one would be even finer than that though I do not know what the actual micron size would be.

Thank you for clarifying this for me
Andy

Hi Andy

No problem.

When I stated grits of waterstones and sandpaper I was not being technical but referring to what we are used to using in Australia. So waterstones are rated in waterstone grits and sandpaper is rated in Australian Wet & Dry grits.

Let's convert them all to microns. That is the universal language.

So a Shapton 12000 (actually it is a 15000) waterstone is rated .9 microns by Shapton.com (but I think it is finer), while a 8000 would be 1.2 microns

(If you want confusing, then try rating Japanese natural waterstones. Since these break down as you hone, the grit particles become smaller all the time).

800 grit W&D is 12 microns, 1200 W&D is 9 microns, and 2000 is 1 micron.

Green rouge (crayon) is .5 micron

The best surface off a Tormek is 1000 grit or 18 microns.

Regards fropm Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Andy

No problem.

When I stated grits of waterstones and sandpaper I was not being technical but referring to what we are used to using in Australia. So waterstones are rated in waterstone grits and sandpaper is rated in Australian Wet & Dry grits.

Let's convert them all to microns. That is the universal language.

So a Shapton 12000 (actually it is a 15000) waterstone is rated .9 microns by Shapton.com (but I think it is finer), while a 8000 would be 1.2 microns

(If you want confusing, then try rating Japanese natural waterstones. Since these break down as you hone, the grit particles become smaller all the time).

800 grit W&D is 12 microns, 1200 W&D is 9 microns, and 2000 is 1 micron.

Green rouge (crayon) is .5 micron

The best surface off a Tormek is 1000 grit or 18 microns.

Regards fropm Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

Thank you for clarifying.

As far as I can see you are using the USA standards for wet and dry. Can we actually buy these papers in Australia? I have lived for 12 years in Perth and a few in ACT and now some 15 in VIC. The wet and dry papers I got from hardware stores, automotive shops, etc are/were all in European standards, generally prefixed with "P". Have never seen any in USA standards in these shops nor have I seen any prefixed with "F". Hence all finer grade papers I had to order from USA in the past. I would love to know where to look for them.

As far as "(If you want confusing, then try rating Japanese natural waterstones. Since these break down as you hone, the grit particles become smaller all the time)."

While I do not wish to dispute this popular belief/claim, especially when it is stated by someone as well respected as you are, I am not sure that this is really happening and if it does how evenly this breakdown would occur. Was this ever scientificly measured? If you know of such paper I would love to read it.

I certainly agree that prolonged use of natural waterstones will make it appear as if it/they became a finer grade (smaller particle or grit size). However, the grit on the surface of the stone could become simply more rounded and as such cutting action becomes slower. It will be doing more polishing rather than cutting if you like. (I suppose it is a matter of definition: one could say that if they become more rounded then they become smaller grit. Though it would not be my definition of smaller grit.)

I am not sure whether you or others have experienced this, but if you use too much water on a very fine stone you actually going to proceed much slower with your polishing than with minimal or optimal amount of water on it. Your knife, chisel or planer blade may even skip on the surface. Just because there is water on the stone the stone itself does not become a finer grade stone, yet it will behave as if it was.

Also, I have seen a number of different stones/abrasives that have the same micron rating, but they do not cut equally fast nor they create the same scratch markes on the surface of the sharpened/honed tool (just check it under a microscoope).

A bit of disclaimer: I do not consider myself a sharpening/honing guru/expert. However, I have certainly tried most methods published and tools/aids I could put my hands on. And yes I can put a fairly sharp edge on most tools and knives. I also know that one method does not produce the best results for different steels. There are horses for courses. I am still learning and expect to learn for the rest of my life. I hope to live long enough to have a reasonably good understanding of what, when and how to do and NOT to do when it comes to sharpening and honing.

Andy