Thread: Stanley Blade Honing Guide

I learnt to sharpen plane blades, chisels and drill bits by eye when I was an apprentice and had to do it for all the tradesmen in the patternshop.

You had to learn to get them right or you got a kick in the backside and it is something you never forget how to do.

Honing guides and sharpening systems just weren't around 50 years ago.

A few days ago I posted a few observations of mine on the Woodcentral forum regarding freehand sharpening verses sharpening with a jig (I have the Veritas set up). I think the discussion is timely and so I have repeated the material below (Link at
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/h...mes;read=28952).

"When I began to use Japanese chisels about 18 months ago I moved away from
Scary Sharp to waterstones (just ye old basic King 800, 1200, 4000 and 6000,
finished with green rouge). I also made a deliberate decision to learn how
to sharpen freehand and only use my Veritas jig to get the bevel square.

Sharpening some of the smaller chisels was very difficult at first, as were
the narrow Stanley plane blades. The thicker LN or HNT Gordon blades were
relatively easy, but it has really only been in recent months that I can say
that I feel confident, for example, I can move around the stone in a figure
of 8 without digging in a corner.

For some time I had been frustrated with the King stones. They seemed sooo
slow. I hear such godd things about Shaptons that I want to get a set, but
this is an expensive change over when mindful of the costs of shipping to
Australia. So I persevered with the Kings. And you know what? They have got
better and better, and my sharpening rate has shortened significantly.

The reason for this I put down to freehand sharpening. I don't know what it
is - and THIS is the purpose of my writing to the group - but this seems to
be a significant improvement over using the Veritas jig. This goes for ALL
my blades, Japanese and Western.

Using the Veritas jig, with the blade set and held at the desired angle
(supposedly replicated, but I wonder?), sharpening seems to go on and on....
It was so slow that I seriously considered getting a Tormek (and posted this
some weeks ago). Yet freehand, with the bevel held flat on the stone,
sharpening seems to fly and requires far less time on each stone. Perhaps it
is that one can really hold the blade flat to the stone, while the jig does
not actually permit this - ??

The other factor that mystifies me is that the sharper I get the blade, the
less sharp it feels on my finger tip. A really sharp blade (as measured by
the ease with which it pares pine end grain) feels far less sharp that one
that has completed the 800 or 1200 stone.

I would very much like to hear the opinions/observations of others on these
features".

Kind regards from Perth

Derek

Originally posted by derekcohen
A few days ago I posted a few observations of mine on the Woodcentral forum regarding freehand sharpening verses sharpening with a jig (I have the Veritas set up). I think the discussion is timely and so I have repeated the material below (Link at
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/h...mes;read=28952).

Derek

Derek do you mean to say that you have been seeing other forums behind our backs?????

Stinky

I thought you said we had an "open relationship"! You tool around then change the rules. First hand tools then power. Why can't you be faithful to just one love?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek

I thought this post would get a response from you because of your love of hand tools and the methods of using them.

The skill of sharpening tools by hand is difficult at first but the more you do it the easier it gets.

As I said when I was serving my apprenticeship we didn't have any fancy jigs to to sharpen tools with in fact we had very few power tools.

Apart from hand planes and chisels, we also used paring gouges with blades that were 10" long. The chisels we used were also paring chisels with 10" blades. Not those stubby arsed things that carpenters use.

The gouges were made by Marples and were the best brand you could buy 50 years ago. They ranged from 1/8" radius up 6" Radius. I still have all my Gouges and they go 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 1", 2", 3", 4", 5" & 6" and that was only the outside radius gouges. I couldn't afford to buy the inside radius gouges or the cranked handle gouges except for a 6" one. I used to borrow those from the other tradesmen.

Well what is the point of all this. Well as I said they had to be sharp because they were always used by hand and we had to work down to the accruacy of 1/64" in timber. No plastic handles or ferrals on the end so you could bash them with a mallet to make them cut like a chippie does.

So all I can say is keep practising hand sharpening and save the time of setting up jigs and become that true professional.

The same goes with sharpening HSS drills after a while you know when the three angles are right just by looking at them. And when they don't cut you certainly know they aren't right.

And after all that use of hand tools I've learnt to love my power tools. Talk about save time. All my chisels hand saws brace and bits spoke shaves etc. are all going rusty.

I will admit I do use my No.4 Stanley Plane occasionally.

I've inserted a picture of a few of them. It is a bit hard to tell but the chisel on the right has chunks out of the top of the handle from using it in carpenters mode.

I am well aware this is not exactly to the original thread topic, But as we have seemed to change direction a bit I thought I'd add my 2c.

I have a tormek, just the little one. This was bought long before I became interested in wood. Whilst it was expensive, it was easily justified at the time because of the number and type of sharpening required.
I find it the best setup yet to put an edge on a blaade (of any type) the jigs do take a little while to set up, but this becomes quicker with practice. After the tormek session, I use an old arkansas stone to maintain the edge, this takes only a couple of seconds and is used free hand. I need to purchase a new stone and am curently trying to find suppliers of arkansas stones in Aus.

Iguess this technique uses both ends of the spectrum, but it works for me.

I have spent a considerable amount of time developing my understanding of the process of sharpening all edge types. I do not profess to be an expert in this arena, so these comments represent my opinions only.

I believe that for all sharpening procedures a combination of jigs and hand manipulation will result in the most appropriate cutting edge for a defined application. Jigs are indispensable for the primary sharpening steps of setting the edge angle, setting the edge square to the tool and ensuring bevel symmetry. The appropriate use of a jig ensures that the tool is “tuned” for use. Once the tool has been correctly sharpened regular hand sharpening can come close to the tuned state. In many cases, depending on the skill level, it will be many months to years before the cutting edge needs to be retuned.

No amount of skill or practice hand sharpening can deliver the accuracy of a jig in relation to edge and bevel parallelism and ultimate sharpening angle accuracy. However, experience and skill can attenuate the level of inaccuracy of hand sharpening. The main reason for hand sharpening angle inaccuracy is the leverage created by most woodworking tools combined with the small bevel surface area makes holding a constant angle very difficult. This is well demonstrated by Derek Cohen’s comments.

[i]Sharpening some of the smaller chisels was very difficult at first, as were the narrow Stanley plane blades. The thicker LN or HNT Gordon blades were relatively easy, but it has really only been in recent months that I can say that I feel confident, for example, I can move around the stone in a figure of 8 without digging in a corner.

Derek [/B]

Many people express frustration with how slow jig sharpening can be. While set up time concerns many people, it is the extended sharpening time that usually causes the most concern.

The difference in time required between jig and hand sharpening is attributed to the actual surface area of metal to be removed. Because a jig sets a constant angle the entire bevel needs to be ground down to sharpen the cutting edge. Whilst with hand sharpening, most people rock from the cutting edge to the heel of the bevel only removing metal from these areas effectively reducing the surface area to be ground. Others develop a secondary bevel at the cutting edge further reducing the surface area of metal to be removed. As the surface area reduces the pressure of the metal in contact with the sharpening media increases further reducing sharpening times.

I realise I will have probable offended many in the hand sharpening brigade, denouncing skill and practice as being the keys to good sharpening. However a simple test can demonstrate the reduced accuracy of hand sharpening compared to jig sharpening. Take a permanent marker and completely cover the sharpened edge of a tool (I suggest a plane blade because these are the hardest to hold at a consistent angle) and move the edge over the sharpening media in one pass as though you are sharpening the tool. Look at the edge and note that you will not have removed all the marker in one pass. Assess the area of clean metal. Now repeat the process and see how the pattern changes. Repeat this with a well set up jig and compare the results.

Now comes the really interesting issue to contemplate, does a jig sharpened theoretically perfect edge perform a superior job to a hand sharpened edge?

I can hear your mind bending and twisting as you read this.

In my opinion it depends on what the edge is required to do. A good example is an edge planner. If any inaccuracy is present it is impossible to get a 90-degree edge, so hence most people send planner knives out to be professionally sharpened or use a jig at a minimum. However for a carpenter chisel that is used to pry out joint waste at the construction site there will be no noticeable difference between a super accurate edge and a rough hand sharpened edge.

This is the long way to say apportion your sharpening time and effort to the areas where you will receive the most benefit.

Now how do I sharpen my tools? Mostly by hand sharpening. However, I use a jig when accuracy is important or when initially “tuning” an edge.

P.S I apologise for the length of the response, I will keep it shorter in the future.

Bill

What you say makes a lot of sense. I'm essentially in agreement with you about the hand sharpening taking less time as one may likely be rocking the blade and, unwittingly perhaps, creating a different cutting angle. This smaller angle is less area to sharpen, and quicker as a result.

Where I might still debate with you is in the replicatibility of a jig. By definition, a jig is there to provide repeatable cuts or grindings. In practice, unless you can set it exactly the same way each time, you will be presented with a new surface to (re)grind, which will turn out to be much more work (since it is like starting afresh each time). As you suggested, one can test this with a permanent marker across the bevel.

So the key element here may be the ability to set a jig in a repeatable way. All the jigs I have tried have proved to be slow to set (i.e. several minutes ++) and, even once set, have not been perfect. I have two jigs, the Veritas and the Eclipse.

The Veritas has no provision for setting the blade square, and you need to use a small square to do so. The Eclipse will automatically square up a blade, but is has a small rear wheel and never feels balanced in use. Pros and Cons.

I have now made my own setting jig for the Veritas jig. It is limited to either 25 or 30 degrees. It will set the correct angle - and set it square - in under 10 seconds (if you are inclined to try for speed records). Nothing original but just my own work.

Pictures are below. The first one is of the jigs I use along with a small 4" Starrett combination square. The second is a blowup and demonstration of the new jig (although I'm sure it doesn't take an IQ greater tha 10 to work it out).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Here is the jig in use with the Veritas holder.

Good work, Derek. Something for me to work on this week.

Incidentally, that's an interesting-looking blade in the second picture. What is it?

Regards

Col

Col

That is the spare Mujingfang blade you got for me. Remember? It does look a little different with the brass reflecting off the silver front.

Regards

Derek

OK - that's what was fooling me.

Col

Hi Derekcohen,
You are quite correct that many jigs are difficult to reset accurately. This often means to sharpen the cutting edge you are removing more metal from the heel of the bevel than would be needed if the jig could be repeatabely set, resulting in a huge increase in time taken to sharpen the tool. I decided not to raise the issue of jig set up in my previous post because it was already very long. Instead I tried to make it clear that the best results come from a perfectly set up jig.

The main reason that I spend most of my time hand sharpening is that no jig I have ever come across or have manufactured offers 100% set up repeatability. I also feel that it takes too much time to set up a jig to sharpen an edge every time a tool needs to be sharpened. This is why I mostly sharpen free hand and only use jigs for tuning a tool, or if ultimate accuracy is required.

I also use an Eclipse jig but I have modified it to suit my own purposes. You have too look very hard and use your imagination to see that it was once an Eclipse. I have developed my own system of setting the blade angle that is very similar to yours. I use a metal fixture with a dial micrometer to set the protrusion length. I have also modified a variable speed jewellers lap plate to accept my hybrid Eclipse jig reducing the time taken to re-tune an edge. In total it takes me about 10 min to adjust the jig, perform the initial lap, secondary lap and final honing. This process used to take me between ½ and 1 hour with the unmodified Eclipse and a bench stone. The results I now obtain are far superior to using the Eclipse the way it was originally used. Even with the time efficiency gained and the superior results I still do not use a jig for all sharpening.

Sounds like wer'e all on the same tack here. Jigs are OK but too slow to set up, and they have inherent inaccuracies as they can not be, easily at least, set up the same each time. Thats why I and it sounds like Bill, use a jig type setup when required but revert to freehand most of the time.

I like your set up Derek looks quick & simple to use.