Thread: Storing and working large pieces of driftwood

Salt water seasoning is a method of timber seasoning often used by wooden boat builders. The basic idea is that the salt removes moisture from within the timber. The timber is then allowed to dry for a few days before use. A common method used to dry knee pieces. They are often seen dangling by a piece of twine into the water under the boat shed.
If you google salt water timber seasoning you will get more info.

Your house sounds like an interesting project! Wish I could be there to poke around during construction....

Originally Posted by KarenRei

If you plan to use driftwood I consider that it should be dry and somewhat cleaned / worked. Otherwise there's a likelihood of undesirable spores and other life that could come into the house.

This is true.

How rot prone exactly can it be? The wood is laden with salt. And how much "processing" is needed? I worry that "processing" it would make it lose its character (or would it?). Wonder how much processing even costs (haven't looked into it yet)

At a guess I'd say that it'd be hosed down with a pressure washer to remove any surface salts & growths, then kiln dried. I suspect that it would change the character of the wood.

While I can't say I have any experience whatsoever with driftwood, I believe your objections to a tarp are valid. I'd hazard a guess to say that's what your engineer meant by "get it to a mill in a timely manner." ie. for short-term storage only, not for drying it yourself.

I've since stored wood in a different approach that was recommended to me - the pieces are all laid out flat, with thin strips of wood as spacers between them, and then all bundled up together with steel wire and lashed down to heavy objects. There seems to be no signs of rot in the wood stored this way, just "seasoning".

The method you describe is - in part - how we process green lumber. Whether it goes through a kiln or is left to naturally air-dry, it is all layered on spacers (we call them stickers) to allow air flow through and around. Doing anything else is asking for trouble.

When air-drying, you should try to keep it shaded as much as possible; the sun dries it out too quickly and tends to cause splitting. Perhaps this is why he recommended tarps?

I'm intrigued by your description of bundling it with wire and lashing it down to heavy objects. Are the winds there that extreme? I can't say I've ever seen that step done here!

But you do what you need to do. No point in going to the effort if stacking it up if, in a week's time, it's now on your neighbours property or back where you first collected it...

What's your take on all this? I have a friend whose father is a farmer up north and is looking to get rid of some driftwood trunks, and I'm itching to be able to do *something* to contribute to the house. But obviously I don't want to waste a bunch of money and work in order to get a pile of rot / unusable timber.

As I said earlier, I'm familiar with drying green lumber but driftwood? No. I don't know how the salt affects the equation but drying is drying...

With that thought I think I'd at least start collecting. Stack it in a relatively shaded spot with spacers as you've described and keep a close eye on it. On a semi-regular basis, monthly perhaps, break the stack down and re-stack it. This gives you an opportunity to check the condition of the centre of the stack and moves the timber around in the stack(s) so that it should all have equal opportunity to dry.

Once you have the timber you can always later re-assess whether it'll be fine in your stacks - air-drying does take a longer time than a kiln to dry properly - or you can decide to send all, or some, to a mill for further processing. Up to that point you're investment should be mainly just time and labour...

Have you made sure that driftwood will be strong enough for the purpose?

I know our climates are different and your driftwood is a different species but my experience is that driftwood is lightweight and brittle. I don't know exactly what is lost but the mass reduction must be some form of degradation and is likely to be the reason for the loss of strength. Since you want to support a waterbed with the structure it would be wise to take some samples of driftwood, cut them to a size that you intend using, then doing some strength tests. It does not need to be with complex test equipment, you can do comparisons with the timbers commonly available to you for building. This will tell you if it is going to be safe.

Good luck with the project.

Hi Karen

If you can identify the specific species - latin or scientific name - of the timber then you can look up that specie's characteristics - strength, flexibility, etc. Perhaps some local woodworkers can help.

Problems with driftwood is that it can be "over dried" in that too much of the lignin has leached out. This reduces strength, and flexibility and the timber may go brittle. There can also be internal decay or rot.

Test it. May I suggest that you cut some planks with a bandsaw or table saw:

• immediately smell the fresh cut - can you smell rot?
• then probe the fresh surfaces looking at surface texture and rot pockets,
• fasten one end of a longish piece and try bending it. Is it strong enough for your house?

But again, we have no experience with Russian timber species.


Good Luck

Graeme

Originally Posted by KarenRei

(ED: Just posted this, but I made a tiny edit, and suddenly the thread disappeared! Trying again...)

Your original post is still there - it's over here.

What a great free pile of good wood !! And the house sounds fantastic .

Originally Posted by KarenRei

How rot prone exactly can it be? The wood is laden with salt. And how much "processing" is needed? I worry that "processing" it would make it lose its character (or would it?). Wonder how much processing even costs (haven't looked into it yet)

Yeah! how bad can it be ? Nature scrubbed and cleaned is how we evolved and our ancient ancestors would have used it without all the BS .

Your probably best off keeping him happy by getting a high pressure cleaner, I have a petrol powered one that sprays a fine jet through to a wider gentle jet. Spray it down with some soapy water or disinfectant ? I don't think that would change its appearance .
If you select pieces to be used you could seal them before they go in with a bucket of warm water and a cup or two of PVA glue mixed in and stirred. This also wont change the nice silver appearance much if at all . let that dry and wipe over with a very fine sand paper and it will be flat with no shine and feel the silkiest smooth depending on how smooth it was before you started. What ever is on or in the surface would now be glued in place.

Originally Posted by KarenRei

The other objection that comes to mind is that he said to store it under a tarp. I've stored wood under a tarp before, and at least in our climate, I would describe that as "destroying a tarp in order to rot your wood".

That's true and very funny . I did the same with roughly 20 ton of wood . I'm a few kilometers off the coast and the tarps lasted one year. All shredded and blown to pieces with trapped moisture within before they blew off.

Now almost all stacks have flat roofs of sheet iron , second hand corrugated roofing just heavily weighted down with 1/2 logs and beams. The wind now just blows through and once in a while I go out and repair from a strong Bass straight blow. I cant do much about the water that comes in side ways I just make the roof over hang as much as possible.

Originally Posted by KarenRei

What's your take on all this? I have a friend whose father is a farmer up north and is looking to get rid of some driftwood trunks, and I'm itching to be able to do *something* to contribute to the house. But obviously I don't want to waste a bunch of money and work in order to get a pile of rot / unusable timber.

That looks like good free wood to me . If the center of the logs are not rotten and splitting isn't to bad Id be grabbing as much as possible . It looks like pine ? cut the ends off and check some out . there could be all sorts of good stuff in there .

Are you allowed to drive on beaches in your Land of Iceland ? Down here in Victoria Australia its not allowed for good reason . We have delicate grass holding sand dunes in place . There have been cases of it being disturbed (Rabbits) and the whole lot starts shifting around. There is a Ship wreck supposedly made of Mahogany first seen around 1840 high in sand dunes that probably was there from the 16th or 17th Century . When the sand dunes started moving with the introduction of rabbits it was swallowed up and hast been seen or found again since 1890 roughly .

If you can drive out to get it then Id get an old 4WD and block and tackle . There is a youtube video of a US or Canadian guy doing this for sculpture wood . Some rare type of wood as well . It looks like fun to me.

Rob

Originally Posted by mpot

Your original post is still there - it's over here.

I see only "Invalid Thread" at that link.

Originally Posted by labr@

Have you made sure that driftwood will be strong enough for the purpose?

I know our climates are different and your driftwood is a different species but my experience is that driftwood is lightweight and brittle. I don't know exactly what is lost but the mass reduction must be some form of degradation and is likely to be the reason for the loss of strength. Since you want to support a waterbed with the structure it would be wise to take some samples of driftwood, cut them to a size that you intend using, then doing some strength tests. It does not need to be with complex test equipment, you can do comparisons with the timbers commonly available to you for building. This will tell you if it is going to be safe.

Indeed, it will take very large timbers, as driftwood isn't as strong (it's much lighter than equivalent sized fresh wood). But then again, "very large timbers" is - aesthetically - sort of the whole point

I imagine the engineer will order some strength tests on the timber, unless there's already some standards for working with local driftwood.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

If you can identify the specific species - latin or scientific name - of the timber then you can look up that specie's characteristics - strength, flexibility, etc. Perhaps some local woodworkers can help.

I can't imagine how that would be possible, given how much the wood has been altered by its time at sea, particularly the exterior. But maybe an expert could

Test it. May I suggest that you cut some planks with a bandsaw or table saw:

Good idea - I could cut wedges (near the ends, so as not to ruin it) out of pieces while it's still on the beach before deciding whether or not to buy a particular piece.

• fasten one end of a longish piece and try bending it. Is it strong enough for your house?

These are whole tree trunks; even a bad piece I doubt I could bend with my hands. I could rig my truck up to it (not sure what I'd rig up to the other ends), but that might face the opposite problem!

Might be able to check for some deflection by mounting each piece up on two other pieces on each end and having multiple people simultaneously jump on the middle. Of course, that would show deflection but not how brittle it is (unless it snaps right in half! But again, with the thickness, I'm not sure even a couple people jumping could do the trick)

At a guess I'd say that it'd be hosed down with a pressure washer to remove any surface salts & growths, then kiln dried. I suspect that it would change the character of the wood.

I imagine pressure washing doesn't do much to hurt the character; I don't know about kiln drying. I've found that if I google images of "milled driftwood" - e.g.:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...VSnBA5nUc_k-M:

.... it just looks like normal wood. Now, pieces cut into slices, it still looks neat around the edges. But it's those edges that have the character, and it'd be a shame to lose them by milling.

I'm intrigued by your description of bundling it with wire and lashing it down to heavy objects. Are the winds there that extreme?

Yes. I've had a steel shipping crate full of several tonnes each of timber, steel, and glass, as well as other heavy objects like a cast iron stove, tossed around like a toy (that was an expensive day :Þ At least it didn't end up in the canyon; the thing is now underground and buried between boulders). A stack of timber is nothing by comparison. Had one stack that I was working on stacking that hadn't been bound and lashed down yet - it "only" had about 100-200 kilograms of concrete blocks on top - and it got taken down overnight, with ~30% remaining where it was, ~50% scattered around the site, and ~20% ending up in a nearby swamp. Fun to retrieve that! (/snark)

Originally Posted by auscab

What a great free pile of good wood !! And the house sounds fantastic .

Thanks! And yeah, we're lucky - the Russians do the work for us, and we get the timber at no cost. Large chunks of the north of the country are big natural collection zones. The amounts have declined in the past decade because the Russians have gotten better about not losing as much of it while floating it downstream, but we still get lots. Farmers in the north (who get it free) sell it cheap, if you arrange your own transport. Smaller pieces are commonly used to build the fences up north.

Yeah! how bad can it be ? Nature scrubbed and cleaned is how we evolved and our ancient ancestors would have used it without all the BS .

Your probably best off keeping him happy by getting a high pressure cleaner, I have a petrol powered one that sprays a fine jet through to a wider gentle jet. Spray it down with some soapy water or disinfectant ? I don't think that would change its appearance .
If you select pieces to be used you could seal them before they go in with a bucket of warm water and a cup or two of PVA glue mixed in and stirred. This also wont change the nice silver appearance much if at all . let that dry and wipe over with a very fine sand paper and it will be flat with no shine and feel the silkiest smooth depending on how smooth it was before you started. What ever is on or in the surface would now be glued in place.

That sounds like a great idea, I'm liking that possibility. It wouldn't ruin the character of the would, but would disinfect the outside. Not sure what disinfectant would be best... hopefully something that would persist? And then sealing it with the diluted PVA... I've seen timber that's probably been treated that way, I know that sort of silky smooth feel you talk about, and that would be perfect.

Are you allowed to drive on beaches in your Land of Iceland ?

We can on privately owned beaches (there's very strict regulations against driving offroad on public lands, whether on beaches or not; the damage heals very slowly due to the low growth rate, particularly in the highlands). I own an old 4x4 pickup (you know the type... chipping paint, bumper at an angle, radio half fell out and with a stuck cassette tape in it, etc, but still works! ) and a 5-meter flatbed trailer. I was also thinking it might be a good idea to bring a piece of plywood and a large car jack (set on the plywood, so as not to sink into the ground) in case there were pieces somewhat stuck in the sand, to be able to "jack them out". But maybe just the truck alone towing on it would work just as well. Don't want to pull too hard on the tow hitch, it's one of those bumper-mounted hitches rather than a frame-mounted hitch.

So, it sounds like a plan might be...
* Head out and find good-looking pieces
* Cut into them (somewhere where it won't ruin them) to look for rot
* Load up pieces that look good and take them back to my land
* Rent a pressure washer and pressure wash the exterior with a disinfectant solution (not sure which one? Can't be anything that would contaminate my land or the water that flows through it... maybe it would need to be done at some sort of facility (what kind?) )
* Air dry or kiln dry? The wood would probably be stored by a year or more ("or more" = if the architect and engineer keep working at the snail's pace that they have been; on the other hand, if I have a building permit by the time of the spring thaw next year, I might be able to have the first enclosed dome hollowed out by the end of the year... not sure how fast construction will go)
* Regardless, the wood would be stacked with stickers during storage


Oh, and one person before mentioned the risk of too much sun exposure during drying. This is Iceland, excessive sun is not a problem that we have



Wind, on the other hand...

Hmm, I wrote two more replies, but they seem to have just disappeared. Something's weird about the moderation queue here Normally I'd edit my above post to include my previous replies, but I fear it might disappear if I edit it...

I wouldn't bother with any sort of disinfectant, just clean water with the pressure washer, dry, stack and leave it at that.

I doubt that further disinfectant is necessary as the salt in the water will have done the trick. On the other hand, pressure wash to thoroughly clean off the salt is a good idea as any salt leaches out could rust in bolts and screws etc. We do have a product here called bondcrete which is diluted PVA. Another option is to use some form paraffin or linseed oil. What about some anti-mould additives if the engineer is concerned about spores?

Also from your description of drift wood, it sounds different than ours. We don't get many big pieces here. Do you intend to use them as logs?

Yes. The idea is that the largest, strongest pieces would be vertical pieces, while smaller driftwood logs would be used to support and/or comprise the flat surface (which I figured, for practicality concerns, would be parquet flooring... although if there was some practical way to make the driftwood itself comprise the flooring, I'd be very open to that.

Oh, and if in case you're wondering... my construction strategy, for all elements of the house is, "have an expert in that particular field of construction..." (in this case, carpentry) ".... working, with me assisting as the dumb monkey who does whatever menial non-skilled tasks they feel like giving me" As much as I'd love to do everything myself (my grandfather built his own house, and I always admired that), I also understand that many skills take years or decades to acquire, and I don't want things to come out wrong. Not that I'm incompetent, I'm just not a carpenter, not a mason, not an excavator operator, etc.

Hi Karen

Looks like I wrote a little too briefly - please allow me to expand -


Identifying the Species

Originally Posted by KarenRei

.....I can't imagine how that would be possible, given how much the wood has been altered by its time at sea, particularly the exterior. But maybe an expert could

True, silvered wood is silvered wood. But if you bandsaw a plank, say 500 mm long, from a log then you will expose the brown wood and the original grain pattern. An experienced woodworker may then be able to identify the species, assuming it is a species he is familiar with.


Testing Strength of Wood

.....These are whole tree trunks; even a bad piece I doubt I could bend with my hands. I could rig my truck up to it (not sure what I'd rig up to the other ends), but that might face the opposite problem!....

What I meant to advocate was that you cut a plank from a log and then test the strength of that plank. Is is stronger, about the same, a little weaker or a lot weaker than than a plank of timber that you normally use?

If the engineers are going to test the strength of the timber then that is even better.



Cheers

Graeme