Thread: Suggestions Please Saw Stop vs Grizzly

Originally Posted by Tommy252

I had not thought of a tape measure setting it off. BIG let down.

Let me clarify as I think you have misunderstood. If you stick a tape measure into the SPINNING blade, it will set it off.

Every time Rich brings this up I wonder what on earth a woodworking school is teaching that people are sticking tape measures (or other metal objects) into spinning blades as a matter or course.

Back to your initial question, I own a SawStop PCS and couldn't be happier. Whilst I would love a short stroke slider, they were close to double my SawStop when purchasing, so simply out of the question for me.

Lance,
In all honesty I don't know.
A student with me at the time told me that he had three blade blade drops on his saw. One was hitting the metal of the miter gauge. Second was a tape touching the blade. The third I don't remember. Based on that statement, I wouldn't allow him into my shop.

Both you and I are smart enough to not to touch a moving blade with a tape measure. Is my source credible? I don't know but he was female dogging about the cost of blade drops.

The second source was the Department Chairman. He told me that over 10 or 12 years there were "Dozens of blade drops" mostly due to the blade touching a measuring tape. I would say that this source, Carl, is exceptionally reliable.

Just between you, I and the door knob, common sense says that a tape touching a blade, is besides being illogical, is the stupidest thing that any woodworker could do. I mean, yes if the machine is powered off and inert, measure to the fence, OK.

On the older set up with UniSaws we were supposed to throw the knife switch on the fuse box located on each saw when the blade was changed, etc. These switch boxes had the cartridge type fuses and were a convenient method to drop all power to the saws. For normal operations we used the power switch built into the saw. When I was last there, 13 years ago, the school was extremely proud of the "No Amputations" record.

There is one other thing. We could query SawStop about tape measure blade drops. But in all seriousness I doubt that their answer would be forthcoming.


Allowing neighbors to use my UniSaw I understand why the CC is proud of the No Amputations record. I've had one cut on my UniSaw. Not significant but still stupidity. On the one cut incident, I don't know how many times you can say, "Do it this way and safely" but you still get the proverbial, "What happens if I stick my fingers into the blade?" I have another neighbor (Who has been taught how to safely use the saw and I trust.) that says, "I'm terrified of that machine. Would you cut this for me?" The latter, I will make cuts for her any time.

I went through this exercise a few years back as well and if you have the budget and space for it, I would 100% get a quality sliding table saw. I ended up getting the Sawstop PCS with 36" T Glide fence and PCS mobility kit and I don't have any regrets after a few years of use. One of my needs then was to able to move all of my tools aside to make space for a car in my garage and that's probably the only thing that the sliders are not ideal for. I've taken over the whole garage now and the big tools have their places - which is why I would buy a slider in a heartbeat if I was looking now.

I don't feel any need to replace the Sawstop though - it really is an excellent saw. Adjustments are easy, installing the guard or knife is easy. And the saw is rock solid and reliable. You can lock the fence and then bump it really hard and it is not going to budge. For me the safety feature is a bonus but not the main purchase reason. I had a play with the cabinet saws available to me and the Sawstop just trumped the others for build quality. I think the Harvey came close but the Sawstop still edged it out. Everything from the manual to the packaging the bolts and screws come in has had some thought put into it, not just farmed out for the lowest cost.

Touching the blade while the saw blade is not spinning will not set off the brake. In fact, that is the way to check if your material will set off the brake - power the saw up but leave the paddle in the off position, touch the blade with your material and see if the red light activates. You can run the saw in a bypass mode for these materials. I've cut everything from 50 year+ bone dry silica filled hardwood to treated pine, plastic, and aluminum with no issues. According to Sawstop small nails and metal fragments shouldn't set off the brake - I can concur as I have accidently cut through some small brads that I'd forgotten about. Fortunately they were teeny weeny brads and the carbide teeth went through them like butter.

This is a 'horses for courses' question. If you're a bit anal, careful, know about the tool, and you're not the type of person to do something that makes you feel uncomfortable you're paying a huge premium for the SawStop. OK, I'm happy to accept that it might be slightly better built than the Grizzly, but I've never been able to see the value, FOR ME. Is it better built than the Harvey or Leguna?, I don't know, but after considering the price difference I'd certainly be happy to put some time in to make up my own mind. I've never come close to touching a moving blade on my saw and, touch wood, I never will.

I'd love a small slider, but lack of space just makes it impossible. The dollars would hurt a bit too.

After reading . . . . .

I think . . . .

Let me rephrase that.

I THINK

I think what happens is that the saw stops. The user readjusts the fence and measures. "Oh, that ATB tooth is leaning the wrong way. Let me use the next tooth." The blade is rotated by hand and touches the steel tape.

As I said, I THINK.

The next time I see Carl I will ask. To me, the most absurd thing to happen when the saw is off and no longer spinning is to have a blade drop. If, and the virus is the big if, we go to AWFS in July, I will ask.

Originally Posted by rrich

I think what happens is that the saw stops. The user readjusts the fence and measures. "Oh, that ATB tooth is leaning the wrong way. Let me use the next tooth." The blade is rotated by hand and touches the steel tape.

That's not how it works though. Based on my understanding, and having just checked the manual, I believe that the saw only considers the spinning blade whilst coasting down. Once the blade comes to a complete stop, the brake is inactive until the saw starts up again.

Originally Posted by LanceC

That's not how it works though. Based on my understanding, and having just checked the manual, I believe that the saw only considers the spinning blade whilst coasting down. Once the blade comes to a complete stop, the brake is inactive until the saw starts up again.

This. the brake cartridge is only active during start up, while spinning and coasting down.

I spin my blades by hand all the time when they're stopped. the little control box on the front gives you the red flashing light, this can actually be a very small trap. If you where to touch the blade and then quickly try and start it that brake cartridge will actually still see the fault up and as soon as you turn the start switch on will let off the brake.

another thing not many people know is you can actually send your brake cartridges back to sawstop/your place of purchase and they will send out at least 1 free cartridge. they like to get the data off it. I've actually had two free replacement cartridges sent to me this way through carbatec in QLD (they are the only ones with the machine to do it)

Originally Posted by havabeer69

I've actually had two free replacement cartridges sent to me this way through carbatec in QLD (they are the only ones with the machine to do it)

Were you in any danger when either of these cartridges fired? If they were mis-fires it might be nice to get a replacement cartridge, but that doesn't take into account the inconvenience, and what about the blades, were they scrapped?

My experience with my contractor version is very positive. I have had it for almost 5 years and never had the cartridge fire. I am retired and use it regularly but not constantly, I believe it is a really good saw, solid, well built and never had any alignment issues, mine has the upgraded fence which is fantastic.

My concern was not so much for my fingers but for other family members when this gets used by them (which does happen), or when it may eventually be passed down.

Just my thoughts

George

My friends,
The last 4 posts have been extraordinarily informative.

When and if I can get true, actual factual information I will most certainly will post it.

What I hear is 'It doesn't happen' and "Dozens, I can't remember all of them".

Originally Posted by aldav

Were you in any danger when either of these cartridges fired? If they were mis-fires it might be nice to get a replacement cartridge, but that doesn't take into account the inconvenience, and what about the blades, were they scrapped?

one yes... one no, it may have been how I found out that if you touch the blade and try and start it the brake goes off

the one the tip of my thumb touched the blade as I was ripping something down. i actually felt the blade on the tip of thumb but by the time I tried to pull back the brake went off, the blade had dropped and my arm was pulling back. It is an inconvenience, it is something I recommend is to buy a spare cartridge, you may never need it but if you can't just drive to a shop and buy one the days wasting for postage is a killer.

one blade was definitely scrapped, I think one tooth came off and another chipped. the other may be fine but I don't know if I want to risk a piece of carbide flinging off at me like a piece of shrapnel for the sake of a $100 blade.

the other thing to remember is there is a bypass, so if you have any suspicion of wet wood or nails etc turn the brake off. I had to use it yesterday as I was chopping up a piece of melamine that had been sitting in some water. Bypassed the brake and cut it fine. The bypass resets every time you stop the saw so next time you fire it up, should the worst happen, you will hopefully save a digit. you can also touch the bit of wood to the blade while its stopped it will flash red if its that wet it will set the brake off. I think it has to be fairly moist to set it off though even according to sawstops site

Will cutting green or "wet" wood activate the SawStop safety system?
SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure

Well, after a LOT of thought and research, as well as talking to local cabinet makers, I decided to go with the Grizzly G1023RXL. I ordered it 1 day before they raised the price about $300.00.
Been working on it daily for 2 weeks now and LOVE it. Setup was a snap, the manual keeps telling you to get a friend, I did mine by myself ( and a little help from a couple of boards and clamps) without a problem. It actually took longer to assemble the mobile stand and extension than it did the saw. Alignment was spot on from the factory, very LITTLE needed adjustment.