Thread: Suttons viper vs Milwaukee red helix

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Jack has given a generic answer opining that in his experience cobalts lasted 100X longer when drilling stainless steel.

That's not what I said Graeme. I said a HSS bit might last one hole and a cobalt bit might do 100. Both cases would be heavily dependant on the conditions of use. Used properly (low RPM, heavy feed and cutting fluid) a quality plain HSS bit will do a lot more than one hole in SS. An abused cobalt will do a lot less than 100.

To your question- I think cobalt is wasted on ferrous, non-ferous and wood. Save them for SS. Composites are out of my league.

Originally Posted by jack620

That's not what I said Graeme. I said a HSS bit might last one hole and a cobalt bit might do 100. Both cases would be heavily dependant on the conditions of use. Used properly (low RPM, heavy feed and cutting fluid) a quality plain HSS bit will do a lot more than one hole in SS. An abused cobalt will do a lot less than 100.

To your question- I think cobalt is wasted on ferrous, non-ferous and wood. Save them for SS. Composites are out of my league.

Thats what i want to do is leave the colbalts for ss and hard metal and not waste on others. That's why i want a hss set

Ended up with 25 piece metric and 29 piece imperial sutton viper. If one breaks easy enough to get a new one. If they dont meet my expectations i will try one of the other suggested sets.
Another thing is back in my mining equipment engineering we used suttons

Is there anyone that knows or uses suttons inox drill bit for harder material like stainless steel. Are they more effective than cobalt?? They say they are for it and unsure?
SUTTON 1-13mm Metric HSS-TiAlN Jobber Drill Bit Set for Stainless Steel - INOX - 25 Piece | Total Tools

That Sutton set is made of HSS (M2 steel) coated with Titanium compound which is harder than HSS and has a lower coefficient of friction than straight HSS. Being harder means the bit should stay harder for a bit longer and having a lower coefficient of friction means that less metal will stick to the drill cutting edge while drilling. This can be a real problem when drilling SS. See my post further back on drill SS. Less significantly is the coating on the sides of the bit which although reducing friction and flute damage although the coating will eventually wear away.

Coatings are fine when drill bits are new but as soon as you sharpen the bit the advantage of the coating on teh cutting edge is reduced.

Someone that knows what they are doing (right drill speed, right pressure, use of lube etc) can get lots of holes in SS out of plain M2 HSS, but using something like Cobalts (M42 steel) is a better long term investment if you have to drill many holes. Cobalt is supposedly also more brittle than M2 so may break but I've found you have to be a bit of klutz to achieve this

Originally Posted by BobL

That Sutton set is made of HSS (M2 steel) coated with Titanium compound which is harder than HSS and has a lower coefficient of friction than straight HSS. Being harder means the bit should stay harder for a bit longer and having a lower coefficient of friction means that less metal will stick to the drill cutting edge while drilling. This can be a real problem when drilling SS. See my post further back on drill SS. Less significantly is the coating on the sides of the bit which although reducing friction and flute damage although the coating will eventually wear away.

Coatings are fine when drill bits are new but as soon as you sharpen the bit the advantage of the coating on teh cutting edge is reduced.

Someone that knows what they are doing (right drill speed, right pressure, use of lube etc) can get lots of holes in SS out of plain M2 HSS, but using something like Cobalts (M42 steel) is a better long term investment if you have to drill many holes. Cobalt is supposedly also more brittle than M2 so may break but I've found you have to be a bit of klutz to achieve this

I am able to drill stainless with my bright m2 milwaukee thunderweb drill, just use right speed and feed with adequate lube.
I had the feeling they weren't as good as they say, also when blunt must buy another which isnt cheap to keep the benefit.
I have 2 sets of cobalt m35 and they are all still there. I just dont like using and wearing them on stuff that can be drilled with other bits

Originally Posted by Itms

I am able to drill stainless with my bright m2 milwaukee thunderweb drill, just use right speed and feed with adequate lube.
I had the feeling they weren't as good as they say, also when blunt must buy another which isnt cheap to keep the benefit.

Why cant you just sharpen them?

I have 2 sets of cobalt m35 and they are all still there. I just dont like using and wearing them on stuff that can be drilled with other bits

FWIW I have about 8 sets of HSS twist ranging from 0.4 mm to about 28 mm.
One of the best thing in my deceased FIL's shed was a couple of boxes full of old P&N bits - many were still in their original packs ie been never used.
Apart from a set of imperial (1/16 to 1/2") P&Ns I bought in 1967 and refilled with spares from my FILs drill stash they are all budget level HSS.
If they get blunt I sharpen them.
I have bought few cobalts for repeated use in SS. Bisalloy and chainsaw bars as I do get sick of constantly sharpening plain old HSS bits as there's no doubt the cobalts hold their edge better.

I can't speak for Itms, but I don't sharpen bits 6mm and under. They go straight in the bin. They never cut as well or as accurately as when new (for me anyway).

Originally Posted by BobL

Why cant you just sharpen them?




FWIW I have about 8 sets of HSS twist ranging from 0.4 mm to about 28 mm.
One of the best thing in my deceased FIL's shed was a couple of boxes full of old P&N bits - many were still in their original packs ie been never used.
Apart from a set of imperial (1/16 to 1/2") P&Ns I bought in 1967 and refilled with spares from my FILs drill stash they are all budget level HSS.
If they get blunt I sharpen them.
I have bought few cobalts for repeated use in SS. Bisalloy and chainsaw bars as I do get sick of constantly sharpening plain old HSS bits as there's no doubt the cobalts hold their edge better.

I do sharpen them on a grinding wheel. Under 3mm or so just replace as they are cheap enough as some of the tiny ones are near impossible to sharpen.

Originally Posted by jack620

I can't speak for Itms, but I don't sharpen bits 6mm and under. They go straight in the bin. They never cut as well or as accurately as when new (for me anyway).

My limit for hand grinding is ~5mm, for sizes between 5 and 3mm I use my drill drill sharpener.

Originally Posted by BobL

My limit for hand grinding is ~5mm, for sizes between 5 and 3mm I use my drill drill sharpener.

What drill bit sharpner do you use?
May be worth a look and purchase.

Does anyone find suttons vipers too aggressive of a cut and leave a messy hole?

Originally Posted by Itms

What drill bit sharpner do you use?
May be worth a look and purchase.

I bought the cheapest (one on sale) from Hare and Forbes.
It removes more metal from the bit than I like but it does work.
Remember I only use it on small bits, for 5 mm and above I hand sharpen on a CBN wheel.

Originally Posted by Itms

Does anyone find suttons vipers too aggressive of a cut and leave a messy hole?

I haven't experienced that. What were you drilling?