Thread: Suttons viper vs Milwaukee red helix

Personally I would go for Milwaukee but that is because I am biased against Sutton. I find their grades of HSS are inferior to European branded cutting tools such as Dormer and SKF.

Originally Posted by Itms

Would like opinion on those 2 bits. They are about the same cost.
Is there any advantage to any of them.
I use suttons and milwaukee in cobalts but want a hss bits to save the cobalts for tougher material

??? You have confused me.

I thought Milwaukee Red Helix were cobalt drill bits?

Milwaukee 15 Piece Red Helix Cobalt Drill Bit Set 48892340

MILWAUKEE 2-13mm 1/4-Hex Metric Jobber Drill Bit Set - RED-HELIX - 29 Piece 48894862 | Total Tools

These are the ones i am looking at?

Originally Posted by Itms

MILWAUKEE 2-13mm 1/4-Hex Metric Jobber Drill Bit Set - RED-HELIX - 29 Piece 48894862 | Total Tools

These are the ones i am looking at?

Seems that Milwaukee rather confusingly use the Red Helix logo on two quite different products.

1. RED HELIX™ Titanium Drill bits which (allegedly) "...give you up to 3X life vs. Black Oxide Drill Bits...", and
2. RED HELIX™ Cobalt Drill bits which (allegedly) "...give you up to 15X life vs. Black Oxide Drill Bits..."

Their cobalt drill bits cost roughly double the price of their titanium bits, but if their "useful life estimates" are accurate then it would still be cost effective to use the cobalts for everything. But as to accuracy of the "useful life estimates" - who knows with a Chinese company?

I have the milwaukee cobalts and the sutton ones.
Just need hss for general purpose drilling

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Personally I would go for Milwaukee but that is because I am biased against Sutton. I find their grades of HSS are inferior to European branded cutting tools such as Dormer and SKF.

Where can i find dormer to have a look at them

RS components are the only Aus franchise that regularly stocks them but at full retail price they are expensive.

However; click here for an online trader who is selling a comparable 29 piece set for $199. The Dormer includes the 3.3mm, 4.2mm, 6.8mm and 10.2mm which are the specific drills needed when tapping M4, M5, M8 and M12 ISO Metric Coarse threads.

Consider these as well
Guhring 25pc Powerline HSS Metric Drill Set 1-13mm x 0.5mm – General Tools
Guhring 29pc Powerline HSS Imperial Drill Set 1/16″ – 1/2″ x 1/64″ – General Tools

We exclusively use Guhring drills at work (engineering company) and they're awesome.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

However; click here for an online trader who is selling a comparable 29 piece set for $199. The Dormer includes the 3.3mm, 4.2mm, 6.8mm and 10.2mm which are the specific drills needed when tapping M4, M5, M8 and M12 ISO Metric Coarse threads.

Are the dormer available in single packs incase one breaks?

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Consider these as well
Guhring 25pc Powerline HSS Metric Drill Set 1-13mm x 0.5mm – General Tools
Guhring 29pc Powerline HSS Imperial Drill Set 1/16″ – 1/2″ x 1/64″ – General Tools

We exclusively use Guhring drills at work (engineering company) and they're awesome.

Elan, have you used Dormer and can compare both? I have a set of imperial Dormer which I bought about 40 years ago and also a set of Dormer number drills that were bought not long after and I bet they weren't made in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Itms

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Are the dormer available in single packs incase one breaks?

From RS Components, yes.

However Elan’s linked German set looks interesting if you are happy with holes at .5mm increments. They are certainly cheaper than every other brand mentioned so far.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

The Dormer includes the 3.3mm, 4.2mm, 6.8mm and 10.2mm which are the specific drills needed when tapping M4, M5, M8 and M12 ISO Metric Coarse threads.

Presumably they're suggesting 5mm will do for M6?

This is minor side issue but these drill sizes will generate a hole that ultimately creates a very high (85% or greater) thread contact but may be very challenging to tap in harder materials especially if used taps are all you have on hand.

For many purposes >85% is overkill and 70, or even 60% may be more than enough. These require larger fractional size drills most of which will not be in the 0.5mm increment range. eg an M12 will be 85% in a 10.4mm hole, 80% in a 10.5mm, 75% in a 10.6mm, 70% in a 10.7, 65% in a 10.8 and 60% in a 10.9mm hole.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Seems that Milwaukee rather confusingly use the Red Helix logo on two quite different products.

1. RED HELIX™ Titanium Drill bits which (allegedly) "...give you up to 3X life vs. Black Oxide Drill Bits...", and
2. RED HELIX™ Cobalt Drill bits which (allegedly) "...give you up to 15X life vs. Black Oxide Drill Bits..."

...

I was hoping someone would comment unassisted.

The Milwaukee propaganda alleges that their titanium drill bits will last three times longer than black oxide bits, and their cobalt bits will last 15 times longer. This implies that the cobalt bits will last 5 times longer than their titanium ones. Is this realistic?

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

This implies that the cobalt bits will last 5 times longer than their titanium ones. Is this realistic?

Would depend on the material Graeme. In SS I'd say cobalt would last at least five times longer. A standard HHS might last one hole in SS. A cobalt might do a hundred holes. Of course, feed, RPM and lubrication will all impact on the results, but my experience is non-cobalt HSS is totally unsuitable for drilling SS.

FWIW, I find the Sutton Vipers (made in NZ) to be at least as good as the handfull of Dormers I've collected over the years.