Thread: Table Saw or Mitre Saw

Originally Posted by tcns

Howdy all,

Well I am at the cross roads of a purchase for my Birthday no less.

I want to build furniture around the house, outdoor stuff and when I have developed some skills move on to bedroom furniture. I am really just starting out but I do quite a bit of metal work so I have a drill press, welders, hand drills vice etc. I have started to get some hand tools, got a set of chisels, hand saw, smaller tennon saw and measuring gauges etc. My lovely wife has asked what I want for my birthday next week.

I have seen some nice mitre saws, some sliding but I don't know how accurate their slide looks for the extra money, I thought it might be better to get a non-slide mitre saw and use put some of my cash toward a nice table saw.

What do I need to look at in a table saw ?
I was looking at something like this http://www.tradetools.com.au/ProdVie...&Product=10106
am I way off with this one ?

The other thing is that I have 3 phase at home and am partial to picking up an older industrial unit,

or there are these
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top rowSpan=2></TD><TD rowSpan=2></TD><TD vAlign=top><!--CHECK!!!--><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>Bench Saw 10inch aluminium top, on legs, spare blade, as new -$140

SAW BENCH, AMERICAN Craftmaster, old model, cast iron with splayed metal legs, 2hp. motor, single phase, table size 700 x 500mm, blade size 235mm, operational, -$250

SAW, 3 PHASE, 5-1/2inch cut, very heavy duty -$550


What do I do ???

Thanks in advance

Tom



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SAW, 3 PHASE, 5-1/2inch cut, very heavy duty -$550
No comparison between hobby machinery and industrial quality.

Okay lets pretend I had some money but no tools what would I do? (I have got some tools that is why I haven't got any money.)

There is a time and a place for cheap tools but purchasing saws is not it. You have to get quality and if you cannot afford to purchase something which is robust enough to cut reasonable sized timber consistently accurately then you cannot afford a saw and should wait until you can. All a poor quality saw will do is make some money for the shop where you get it and once in our workshop it will forever after ruin timber or frustrate the life out of you as you use it.

A sliding compound mitre saw is a great investment, once you have bought a table saw. I have a good SCMS and it is deadly accurate. But it cost a few dollars to buy and so it should be accurate. But you need a reliable table saw first. You can get by without a SCMS but you will find furniture construction hard work without a table saw.

So a good quality table saw would be the first item,

The second purchase should be a book or video on how to use it properly and safely. Better still join a wood club and get instruction from somebody reliable.

The other question as to what to look for. I would not claim to be able to give a definitive answer here. Other posts will no doubt give better advice but here are some things to look for.
a) horse power of the motor. More is better
b) heavy and flat cast iron table
c) solid fence. The fence should slide easily. It should lock tight without being able to be moved once locked. Also the fence should consistently lock parallel to the blade. If ever you use a table saw where the fence is not parallel to the blade then you will be in for a very exciting (read dangerous) afternoon.
d) the rise and fall of the blade should be smooth and once the height of the blade is set it should not move as you cut timber. This also applies to the tilting of the blade. Some method of locking these settings is desirable.
e) there should be some effective method of connecting the saw to a dust extractor.
f) riving knife should be in line with the blade and should stay in line with the blade as the saw height is changed and as the blade is tilted to a variety of angles.
g) the mitre guage should move freely in the mitre slots but there should not be any sideways movement in the slot
h) can the saw use dado blades and if so what type. It is better, I think, if the saw has a 5/8 inch arbor as this is a fairly standard size.
i) availablity of spare parts and/or service. Mechanical things break and when they do you will want to know that it can be fixed.

I hope that you enjoy your new toys.

The way I see it the scms and table saws really have different uses, you wont be able to cut anything wider than 300mm on a scms and you cant rip timber, that will be a huge limitation in what you do.

I have a cheap scms and I dont feel the need to have a more precise unit, the main things I use it for is framing and cuting timber in more manageable pieces before using the table saw.

The table saw in the other hand MUST be precise else you will waste a lot of timber and be frustrated.

It all comes down to how much money and space you have and how often you will use it, if you plan to use it regularly stay away from the smaller table saws like the 500x700 you described. I personally prefer cast iron tables particularly on the smaller machinery as it better absorbs vibrations and is heavier than aluminium but that is not to say that there is no nice machinery with aluminium tables.

As you have metal working experience you probably can judge if a machine is properly designed and built, hang around in the shops and look what they have and how it is made then you will have a better idea to what to expect or settle for but the table saw is the most important part of the woodworking shop.

If I had 3 phases and room I would definitely look at second hand equipment.


Hope that helps

Dont even think about that 10" portable, I have one that looks the same except its brand called is Clarke. These are a generic saw that come under a few different names.
Just take one look at the table... you cant have a zero clearance insert, the red insert plastic thingy along side the blade is very flimsy. The adjustment to line the blade up with the mitre slots is near non-exsistant(I cant use them thats very bad...). Before you turn it on I would replace the blade as they usually come with a steel blade and you would be lucky if it was straight(mine had a 8mm kerf!). Also like most cheap power tools bearing runout is a real issue, I put a reasonable makita blade and it still cuts a 4-6mm wide kerf(blade is 3mm)you cant cut a straight edge, as a result I allways cut then trim back to correct width with a router. The fence, just chuck it in the bin because thats all its worth. These are more or less a hand held saw on the inside, there is no drive shaft/abour. You'd do better buying a triton set up.
I shot myself in the foot when I brought this saw and am still paying for it now, but I didnt know at the time what I was in for.
It pays to research!
Soon I'll get a good TS Im looking to $1500-2000 mark, just a basic saw...

Standard advice No.1: Get thee to a library, get some books on table saws (Taunton Press & Popular Woodworking publish some good & current stuff) & read up. That way you will have a much better idea of what you are a) looking at & b) looking for.

You will also be much less likely to get sold a dodgy P.O.S. by some commission jockey who was rejected as a used car sales-person.

Oh - go for the table saw, you can do so much with one - even a Triton setup like mine. A reasonable, medium sized handheld circular saw ( or even a ryoba/hand saw) in addition to the above can be used with a guide to cut timber to manageable lengths.

Unlike Harry72 I was lucky enough to stumble blind into what has turned out to be my best tool acquisition. Back when I was tooling up, a local furniture maker recommended a "panel saw". I didn't even know what one was. So I went to a second-hand industrial woodworking machinery shop. And there was a Kamro sliding table panel saw going cheap. It's 3 phase big and heavy. But cuts wood absolutely accurately, straight and square. It makes cutting panels any size a breeze. And hasn't skipped a beat in 5 years of almost constant use. And the sliding table makes it feel a lot safer. I've never used a non sliding table saw, so I shouldn't really comment. But it seems to make the cutting operation a lot easier and MUCH safer. So if you have 3 phase and the space, and you can find an old panel saw - that's something to consider.

Long time lurker - first time poster.

Since registering, I've been lurking on and off for some time. This thread interests me because I am about to properly set up my workshop for the first time (I've only been in this house for 25 years).

I have a reasonable collection of hand tools and some old but still serviceable portable tools. After reading some of the posts on this site, I've been salivating over the compund mitre saws etc., at my local Mitre 10 but on reading this thread, I'm coming to believe that Triton may suit my needs better.

I have to own up to being a former Triton owner (Mark 3) but it is long gone. I found it a really useful system but was not happy with the way my circular saw (Ryobi I think - it's green) didn't guarantee a true setup especially on shallow cuts where the saw was fully extended in its frame, if you know what I mean - the body of the saw could twist relative to the base plate. This seems to be a function of the saw design rather than the Triton per se. I'm guessing that if I do go with the Triton, I might be up for a new saw - is the Triton saw the best solution, or are there better options out there - or is there a fix for my old trusty.

Thanks

Back in the old days before panels were invented they made saws (breakdown/rip) that were built like sherman tanks. You could just about put anything through them and never kill the motor. I use a Wolfenden at work and its at least 40 years old. While working with one of these machines with another employer we were ripping a 10 piece's of 50mm, F27 Vic Ash, 6 meters long. I was on one end and another employee on the other and the saw did not miss a beat during the process. Lighter saw would not be able to complete the task.

When panels were invented then panel saw came along and the older panel saw are quite strong but still only made for light work and the new panel saws are only made to cut panels and not much more.

The current range of tablesaws sold by carbatec ect, are made for light duty work. I am thinking about buying a CT -250 for home and would not put much more than 19mm material through it most of the time.

If I had 3 phase power and the room I would go for an old breakdown saw. It might not have all the features of the modern saws but you will be able to pass it on to your kids when you are to old to use it.

Just keep in mind that when using these industrial machines, you are not playing with pony power, you are playing with horse power and lots of it. Get into the habit of standing to the side of the machine when pushing material through and don't try to cut little bits of timber with it.

Daniel