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Thread: table saw v panel saw
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4th September 2008, 11:13 PM #16
I say panel saw if you can afford to spend more than your 5k but if not then spend as much as you can on a good old fashioned English or American table saw and the Festo for sheet goods.
RossRoss"All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.
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5th September 2008, 12:20 AM #17
Trying to wrestle full size sheets on a conventional table saw is a non-trivial event; heavy weight, working against a rip fence, need for roller stands.
A proper panel saw will also cost more than the budget...even the delivery will be a few hundred dollars. Add a blade and electrical connection and you've already spent a grand.
The big objection to panel saws (and I have one) is the huge space that you have to devote to it. Imagine a 6 metre X 4 meter area minimum which the original poster mentioned was going to be a big factor. They are however the tool of choice when money and space are not factors.
Second choice has to be the Festool saw, guide system (which by the way is modular...just clip lengths together, and you can also use it with the routers) and vacuums. (As a system) The Festool saws are just better than the other brands-they are one of Festool's best products. Quiet, accurate and with the vacuums are also very clean. I'm told the cuts are mostly free of splintering-something you can't say of a typical table saw (on melamine I mean)
(I own a Hitachi circ saw...supposed to be a high quality thing, well regarded. The TS65 makes it look stupid-loud, dirty and not particularly accurate. Construction grade tool)
I read that many users of the Festool system just keep a sheet of Styrofoam around for panel cutting-just flop it onto the floor, set the sheet down on top and set up the guides and go...the blade just nicks the foam...a lightweight effective cutting table. I read that it is very easy to get sub-millimetre accuracy with this saw...what more do you want?
I am by no means a fan of Festool's pricing but I think the saw/guide combo is good value and a great tool. Coupled with a (say) used table saw for solid timber you'd still have $$ left over. If you can get to a Festool full-service dealer that does demos you could see for yourself.
Good luck with your projects and the tool buying
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5th September 2008, 12:30 AM #18Novice
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Go Festool
Hi, I am a tool salesman that sells alot of woodworking gear and i would def go for the Festool with guide rails. The TS55 or the TS75 depending on the DOC that you need.
Guide rails come in a few different lengths up to 3m long with replacable splinter guards and that sort of thing.
Panel saws and table saws are good if you have the room and the cash to throw around.
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5th September 2008, 05:40 AM #19
festool is sounding better, I like that foam idea (even though sounds like you be crawling over sheet on your knees), and the long fence......but after you've cut an edge, how do you go about cutting another long edge perpendicular ? .......is there some kind of inbuilt device in the guide that lines up perfect 90 degree cuts for you off an existing cut?
On the panel saw, you just flip it up against the crosscut fence.......Keep flipping and cutting and you can cut any accurately sized rectangles you like very quickly......which is basically the heart of cabinetmaking. If things arn't square your stuffed.
How can you do that reliably with the festool ? ( can see why I'm thinking it'll be fiddly )
How can you do many identical cuts off stops ? What if say you need to make a dozern rails all the same length and width. Maybe there's something in the festool that allows you to quickly make identical width cuts (??) but nothing to cut to length each time. Panel saws have cross cut stops. Can cut large mitres, and all sorts of angles over and over as well. just one machine. gives you complete control while supporting the stock at the same time.
Also, remember, a panel saw needen't take up 4 x 6m.......the setup I use at work has the panel saw right next to the roller door. ie. It probably only takes up about 4 x 3m because you can use space outside when in use. If your going to lay down ply on foam or table or whathave you, with say 1.2 x2.4 sheets , that'll take up 2 x 3m to work around anyway....taking forever, fiddling away on your knees trying to make accurately square cuts doesn't seem ideal to me.
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5th September 2008, 07:35 AM #20
Thanks apricotripper, just about swung towards Festool and then you make a good point of floor space req to work on ground. In saying that, I have about 6x4m relatively flat concrete in front of the roller door. If i go the panel saw route, i was planing to put it up against the roller door and feed the sheets from outside the garage to inside. What would be the required depth from the front of machine/roller door to rear to handle a 2.4m long sheet?
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5th September 2008, 09:46 AM #21
Seems to me there are three questions to ask yourself.
Do I have a lot of accurate panel cutting to do?
Do I have the space to operate a panel saw?
Can I get a decent panel saw within my budget?
If you answer yes to all three, then you have your answer.
Mike.
www.ColonialPlantationShutters.com.au
Use your garage or home workshop to make Plantation Shutters as a business
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5th September 2008, 09:55 AM #22
There is another answer too which no one has yet mentioned:
Buy your sheet goods from a full-service outlet that does cuts. I did this years ago, paid maybe $5.00/sheet more and a few dollars for the cuts. Over a complete kitchen it came out to maybe $100 extra.
For a hobbyist there is no way to justify any of these tool options as long as we are being rational. (I mention this as a matter of interest only as I am no fan of rational behaviour-otherwise I wouldn't have this swell shop.)
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5th September 2008, 10:10 AM #23
I couldn't give you any accurate measurements. Depends on machines etc...and what your going to do.
without space its hard to do anything really. I don't know how bad your situation is.
I can give you a picture of the saws we have at work. probably doesn't help much. But the furtherist one is positioned as close to the roller door as possible. ie. you push the sliding table forward inside, and when the roller door comes down it bearly misses the fixed casting....just positioned so the rip fence is against the wall and nothing fouls rips and cross cut movements.
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5th September 2008, 10:41 AM #24
Just one other option. I've been eyeing the rail system carbatec sell. There is an 8' rail for $150, clamps to the panel at any length up to 8', works with any saw. You can either use it as a fence or buy a sled which give you better guidance.
I've not used it and don't know much about it, but in concept it looks like it would deal with issues I have from time to time making long cuts acurately. Add circular saw of your choice and a couple of horses. Progrip it's called. Might be an option ?
2c..I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?
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5th September 2008, 10:50 AM #25
I've got 1 bay of a double garage to fit my gear in, 3m wide x 6m deep approx. Need the other bay spare for the car, however the car will be moved out while I'm working so if I can get mobile bases on my equipment I'll be able to use the full 6m x 6m.
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5th September 2008, 10:55 AM #26
Hi Damian,
I think with the Carbatec system the saw sits mostly beside the guide rail, so when measuring you have to allow for the distance from the blade to the guide. With festool system the blade cuts right at the guide which makes setting up much easier & reduces room for user error.
Cheers,
Paul
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5th September 2008, 11:46 AM #27
Yes, your right of course, but that gap should be consistent so assuming you measure right ...
I have about the same space you have, although there is a line of motorcycles between car and woodshop which I don't move. I doubt I could reasonably fit a panel saw in there AND use it, but YMMV. My contractors saw blocks my way when it's set up, but gets draged off to the side when not in use. I haven't had to do anything at 8' yet but will be doing some 7' in a few months. I expect I'll be able to set up the saw for that.
Really it's all about you and what your happy with. I made do with a circular saw and some basic hand tools for years. The quality of my work wasn't wonderful, but someone with skill can and have made do with a lot less. One thing is for sure, your not short of optionsI'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?
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5th September 2008, 12:34 PM #28
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5th September 2008, 01:40 PM #29
Your welcome to come up and have a look at my saw if you want. Mt Crosby is a bit of a drive. You might do it on a saturday and drop into carbatec in the morning and my place in the afternoon ? maybe swing by H&F, TTD and Gregories ? Not 100% sure of gregories are open saturdays.
I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?
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5th September 2008, 02:02 PM #30
I agree with gregoryq get it cut by a cabinet shop into managable sizes. I think if you are not doing this fulltime but as a hobby there are much better ways to get value for money with tool purchases, rather than buying a dedicated panel saw. What if you spent your 4-5k budget on a quality table saw a bandsaw a jointer & thicknesser it would give you more options, especially when space is an issue. You would also have more options for mobility with these items. Also you could just get some initial cutting into managable sizes to do yourself on your new table saw.
Since light travels faster than sound,
People appear bright until you hear them speak.
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