Thread: Teaching help needed.

Originally Posted by Different

Strange but I am not a teacher and would not hesitate to teach this subject. In fact I suspect not being a trained teacher is an advantage if you still remember the learning process yourself.
The problem is they would not pay enough for me to even bother getting to work let alone teaching and the skill and responsibility involved. I also suspect what I deem safe practice would not be viewed as such by the current litigious generation of educators.
Also I would not tolerate any behavior that might put the students or anyone else in harms way I would just refuse to teach that student from that point on. Probably a policy not in vogue these days how dare a teacher impose dicipline on a student.!

Ross

Ross
Teaching has little to do with knowledge of subject matter. It is all about understanding how students learn. Not just an individual student, ie how you learnt, but how to approach a topic in a multitude of ways so as to cater for all students. It is preferable to have a qualified teacher teaching an unfamiliar field than to have an 'expert' trying to impart knowledge and skills to a group of students. An 'expert' mentor works very well on a one to one basis or in a very small group of like ability students.

All that aside, even after over 30 years of teaching, I refuse to take practical lessons in a subject area I'm not qualified in. I have supervised practical manual arts lessons but not taught them. My science safety training and home workshop skills ensures that I can maintain a safe environment. I will not take a practical phys ed lesson. I know my limitations.

With regard to your last comment, unsafe practices do not have to be tolerated in schools. As Head of Science, I had a policy whereby any student in a laboratory, irrispective of whether or not an experiment was being carried out, was removed for any behaviour that could possibly have created an unsafe environment. This included not following instructions. I ran a 3 strikes policy. The first three offences had increasingly severe penalties of exclusion from the lab and parental interviews. The fourth offence resulted in exclusion from all science practical lessons for the rest of their time at the school. No student ever got past the second offence.

I'll now get off my educator's soapbox.
Kerry

I cannot agree with the statement that "teaching has little to do with the subject matter". One of the disasters of the schooling system is that too many maths teachers are incompetent, often having no idea about maths. I trained as a computer scientist who did a minor in mathematics (I'm actually a human factors professional now) and has also tutored in maths and can assure you that a great teacher who does not understand maths cannot generally teach maths. (I should admit some bias here my mother is a maths teacher now university academic and my father is a professor in maths). I have met many students who have no idea how to do something properly because they have had a science teacher or something else who doesn't know enough maths to teach them properly. I have also met many students who have had computing teachers who I wouldn't employ if they were the last people on earth, the information they give the students is at best outright wrong and thats the least of it.

Personally except for one off lessons I don't think any teacher should be teaching in an area they aren't qualified in.

Colleen

I enjoy reading threads of this sort, particulary as I am a teacher.
There is much truth in all that has been said so far but, need we philosophise so much in order to answer Achaps request for help?
Just athought.

Give the chidren a simple task like a wooden spoon, as that was the first thing i started with then take a deep breath and learn a few basics to get yourself out of deep dark waters otherwise you could always leave the job for an expert.
only an opinion/suggestion.

Originally Posted by artme

I enjoy reading threads of this sort, particulary as I am a teacher.
There is much truth in all that has been said so far but, need we philosophise so much in order to answer Achaps request for help?
Just athought.

Interestingly there has been no update/response from achap53. I think somebody thought we were flaming him then reread the responses and reconsidered, maybe achap did as well and has gone elsewhere.

There are some genuine helpful suggestions in the thread. Unfortunately the request for assistance was very broad and the responses have been correspondingly broad.

"What is the correct procedure I should follow when constructing a coffee table is basically what I am after?" This question feels to me like the asker doesn't know enough about the subject matter to even know where to start. There is no CORRECT way to build a coffee table.

At the moment we haven't seen achap's scratchpad design, so it's a bit hard to suggest a construction method. We don't know if he is scheduled to teach a class. We don't know what his timeframe is or if he has a particular age of student in mind. We don't know what facilities are at his disposal.

Hi,
What you could try is start them off on small projects that they can use like a stone holder or a shooting board { thats how I started } this will give you a bit of time to get your head around it and do a course or two , I agree but the first thing you should be teaching is sharpening techniques and safety in the shop

I wish you well and hope it all turns out for you

Regards
Glenn

Originally Posted by Wood Worm

Ross
Teaching has little to do with knowledge of subject matter. It is all about understanding how students learn. Not just an individual student, ie how you learnt, but how to approach a topic in a multitude of ways so as to cater for all students. It is preferable to have a qualified teacher teaching an unfamiliar field than to have an 'expert' trying to impart knowledge and skills to a group of students. An 'expert' mentor works very well on a one to one basis or in a very small group of like ability students.

This sounds like the party line trotted out by educational administrators desperately trying to find qualified teachers for schools or teacher education faculties trying to justify their existence. The former is the primary reason why I left teaching after 7 increasingly disappointing years.

Education should not only about not knowledge and skills, but in ways of thinking. Unless a teacher has some expertise in the ways of thinking in a specific field, no amount of training in educational gobbledygoop can make up for this. Sadly our kids are increasingly being taught that the only way of thinking is in what our teachers have been trained in ie educational gobbledygoop.

Kids will learn when challenged and taught by an expert with passion and sure, it helps to have some knowledge of how kids learn.

1) Learning must be challenging - knowing little or zip about a subject means teachers can't challenge (especially bright) students appropriately.
2) Passion - no teacher should be teaching unless they are passionate about what they teach. The more expert a person is the more likely they are passionate about it otherwise how could they have got this way?
3) Knowing how kids learn - just knowing how kids learn is about as much a guarantee of success in teaching as being an expert in a field. There are many teachers with BEds who are supposedly experts how kids learn that simply don't have the interest or time to put learning theory into practice. BTW - the basics in how people learn is not rocket science and should not take more than about a year to learn, and most of that can be on the job!

The attitude that experts can't teach is compounded because the worst graduates with specialist qualifications, such as BSc's, are the only ones that usually go into teaching. These people simply shouldn't be teaching - the problem is the better specialised graduates can get better paying, less gobbledygoop based jobs, elsewhere.

I happen to work in an institution of higher learning. When we select our tutors for first year classes from Honours and PhD students the first cut for selection is the expertise of these students, then we cull those that we don't believe have the right attitude or approach to teaching. We simply cannot afford to have the blind leading the blind.

Bob
I couldn't agree with you more. It was not my intention to imply that knowledge was not important merely that the possession of knowledge did not make a teacher. An effective teacher may have little in the way of academic qualifications but with a sound knowledge base and an understanding of the interests of children and how they think a profound effect can achieved. Some of the best teachers I've come across are from industry backgrounds with a short course in teaching practices.

I'm the biggest dinosaur when it comes to educational philosophy and jargon. I refuse to jump on the latest bandwagon until it can be proven to be educationally sound, is not a foreign reject and will still be supported in the years to come. We are seeing the effects of many of these schemes from the 80's where today's teachers often cannot spell, use correct grammar or understand basic maths. Don't get me started on educational bandwagons.

Over the years I have seen too many highly educated teachers who are passionate about their subject but fail to tailor that knowledge to the ability level of the students. I've had to support many through their frustrations and tears until they develop the skills to impart knowledge. My opinion is that you can't teacher a person how to teach. It is an art that is learned and developed over years of experimenting. A good teacher never stops learning how to teacher or gaining new knowledge. When they do stop, they should stop teaching for ever.

After 38 years in front of classes, I still get a thrill at seeing lights being turned on in students brains during a lesson. When I lose that passion I will give up teaching for ever. At the moment, I'm semi-retired and doing relief teaching. I've thought about taking up other occupations but I can't think of anything that gives the satisfaction of helping students learn.

Originally Posted by Wood Worm

Ross
Teaching has little to do with knowledge of subject matter. It is all about understanding how students learn. Not just an individual student, ie how you learnt, but how to approach a topic in a multitude of ways so as to cater for all students. It is preferable to have a qualified teacher teaching an unfamiliar field than to have an 'expert' trying to impart knowledge and skills to a group of students. An 'expert' mentor works very well on a one to one basis or in a very small group of like ability students.

All that aside, even after over 30 years of teaching, I refuse to take practical lessons in a subject area I'm not qualified in. I have supervised practical manual arts lessons but not taught them. My science safety training and home workshop skills ensures that I can maintain a safe environment. I will not take a practical phys ed lesson. I know my limitations.

With regard to your last comment, unsafe practices do not have to be tolerated in schools. As Head of Science, I had a policy whereby any student in a laboratory, irrispective of whether or not an experiment was being carried out, was removed for any behaviour that could possibly have created an unsafe environment. This included not following instructions. I ran a 3 strikes policy. The first three offences had increasingly severe penalties of exclusion from the lab and parental interviews. The fourth offence resulted in exclusion from all science practical lessons for the rest of their time at the school. No student ever got past the second offence.

I'll now get off my educator's soapbox.
Kerry

" Teaching has little to do with knowledge of subject matter"
That is plain wrong, dangeriusly wrong. Fact is you cannot teach what you dont know unless your only goal is to impart certain facts (Rote Learning) and except for your times tables that has little or no educational value.

I am not a teacher but have extensive experience training people in a number of different fields in some cases where the people who I instructed were required to have 100% understanding of the subject matter without fail, of course I dont know anything near as much as a "trained teacher" I also spent some time writing technical manuals and instruction of a highly specific nature and intent where the reader if unable to understand first time could easily have a very bad very short day.
I have learned and applied an enormous amount about teaching and you cannot teach anything of importance or complexity without an exhaustive knowledge of the subject. First time a student asks a question and you either cannot answer it with conviction or cannot come back quickly wit even more conviction and insight you will loose credibility with at least that student and then you are no more than a child minding facility.

As a student I have been taught by teachers whose knowledge I equaled and then exceeded while still in their care (no thanks to them) and I assure you it is about the worst thing that can happen to the student teacher relationship to discover the teacher is a fraud and to be treated as a threat when they then find themselves at risk of being exposed as such.
Beyond all that how if you value your role as a teacher how can you live with a student asking you for insight or guidance when you are not able to give it because you have no real understanding of the subject!

Ross