"Thin" end grain cutting board

[Warb]

I've been requested to make an end grain cutting board, but the intended recipient is an older person who may not cope with a heavy board. Normally I like an end grain board to be >40mm thick, both for aesthetics and because it gives strength to the inherently weaker structure of the board. In this case such a thickness is not possible, because the board would weigh too much. This board will not be large and will be more likely to be used as a cheese board, taken to the table, rather than permanently left on a work surface in the kitchen and used for cooking. The end grain nature is simply for aesthetics, because someone saw my own board and decided a smaller version would make a good gift....

My first thought was to wonder exactly how thin an end grain board could be without risking it cracking. My second thought, however, was to wonder if an end grain board could be laminated to avoid the cracking issue. If I made a standard "thick" end grain board 250x300mm, and then put in through the bandsaw to create (for example) 7mm thick "sheets" of end grain board (like a very thick veneer), I could then laminate them on to a sheet of (6mm?) marine ply. This would result in what appeared to be a 20mm thick end grain board, and if I finished the outside edge with a full thickness frame of end grain, or even long grain, then the ply would be entirely hidden.....

Would such a construct be stronger than a straightforward 20mm "thin" end grain board? Something tells me it should be more resistant to cracking if dropped, but I've never tried it!! Thoughts?

[verawood]

Yes there is always some uncertainty in doing things slightly differently.
But from what you have said I think it would be worth the effort, even if you had to do it a 2nd time to perfect it.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Good luck, and I look forward to some pics.

[labr@]

Have you considered the effect of the different expansion between the ply and the end grain layers? The laminated board would have equal end grain layers on each side so shouldn't bow but there must be a thickness at which the end grain would shear off of the ply when it gets damp and expands. You may need to go down to only a few mm to make it stay together but it still needs to be thick enough not to wear through too soon.

Another possible solution is to make a board that has 40mm edges but is hollow underneath so it is only 20mm thick in the middle - sort of like an inverted dish. The thick edges would offer some support but it would not stand up to chopping. A variation on this would be to have 4 hollow sections so there would be support across the underside from both directions.

[auscab]

Yes it will work Warb. It should be stronger than solid done right.


"If I made a standard "thick" end grain board 250x300mm, and then put in through the bandsaw to create (for example) 7mm thick "sheets" of end grain board (like a very thick veneer), I could then laminate them on to a sheet of (6mm?) marine ply."


I wouldn't be making up a board as you said above to be resawn though . That's hard work . Better to saw off the end grain veneers and assemble , taped together, to be pressed down as one. Or pressed down in stages. If its chess board pattern then assemble dark and light strips . Shoot each side then put strips together to make chess board look .

7mm is a bit thick as well . 7mm onto 9mm still leaves the 7mm with some power to do as it pleases. 3 or 4mm will work. Use a glue that's not water based . Two pack or Poly would be good. And the end grain top should be soaked with oils to repel water Id think . Or sealed to do the same with suitable finish.

With a chopping board solid around the outside will work but solid onto a veneer on ply edge needs more . A frame glued up to the ply with a bar through the middle for center support.

Or

Use 4mm onto ply and glue the 4mm down with a 4mm overhang of the ply. Glue a frame around flush with the ply , mitered at corners. Then veneer down over the frame and match side veneers with top veneers. To get a thick look . If you wanted to get real fancy the under side of top veneers could meet the side with 45 degree join and same at side corners.

Thinking some more with the thickness you would use . 4 mm is fine as long as nothing to hot is placed on it for to long. The thicker the better for heat.

[Warb]

Use a glue that's not water based . Two pack or Poly would be good. And the end grain top should be soaked with oils to repel water Id think . Or sealed to do the same with suitable finish.

With a chopping board solid around the outside will work but solid onto a veneer on ply edge needs more . A frame glued up to the ply with a bar through the middle for center support.

What's the reasoning behind the choice of glue? Is the concern that a water based glue will cause expansion of the timber and therefore leave "built-in" stress to the sandwich when it dries? I ask only because I've always used Titebond III on cutting boards (long or end grain) and never had an issue, but I've also never done a "laminated on to plywood" one! When you say "poly" do you mean something like Titebond Polyurethane?

My concept for the "frame" was to make the plywood core perhaps 20mm longer and wider than the endgrain veneers, therefore leaving a 10mm protrusion/tenon all the way around, and then mortise the frame pieces to suit. Obviously that wouldn't work for a narrow frame, but my initial concept was that the frame would likely be the same width as the endgrain squares. I normally reserve the right to change my mind when I lay it out on the bench prior to gluing - what I see in my head doesn't always look as good "in the flesh"!

Unless there has been a specific reason to use something else, I've taken to using U-Beaut FoodSafe Oil for "ready for work" cutting boards, together with instructions to clean and dry a board and not leave it soaking in the sink. Hopefully that will also work for this one!!

[brit]

I have made heaps of cutting boards [ lightweight] and its about selection of timber as much as anything. I would forget the ply and look at timbers like Qld maple ,NG rosewood ,camphor laurel,tassie Blackwood,Jacarander, these are all lighter hardwoods of vayring colours and the end grains sand well. I have made hundreds of boards at 300mmx300x25mm thick and have never had a problem even with my 90 yr old aunty.BY the way I have moved away from mineral oil as it is too hard to refurb ie sand as it fills the paper with oily sawdust . My preferences hardware oil @ coats light sand between coats. Good luck Brit

[auscab]

What's the reasoning behind the choice of glue? Is the concern that a water based glue will cause expansion of the timber and therefore leave "built-in" stress to the sandwich when it dries? I ask only because I've always used Titebond III on cutting boards (long or end grain) and never had an issue, but I've also never done a "laminated on to plywood" one! When you say "poly" do you mean something like Titebond Polyurethane?

Ive used both types . Water based and non Water based . Ive had disasters with WB and now steer clear in this type of use . You can work around anything though and it'll be fine. It also has a lot to do with how its being laid.
My problem with WB was the parquetry was curling . The thinner the pieces the more likely this can happen . They were not end grain. If I had just pressed them down all would have been fine but I didn't have a press big enough. 2.4 x 1M table top. I moistened the top side and they then stayed flat . They were rubbed into place. It was a basket weave pattern. Then when the whole thing dried and a couple of weeks later I had a Banana top .
Then there is the use with water / thin veneers and adhesion in the future. Non WB glues and the wood doesn't expand on one side. TB III is water proof . Good for the adhesion but will still expand the glue side of the timbers.

Poly / Titebond Polyurethane . Yeah that's what I mean . I use Poly for this type of thing . I'm doing dinning table tops . I use a 15minute setting type. Its great. I like the fast set , 20 minutes to half an hour after pressing and I continue working on the next section, and its water proof.

My concept for the "frame" was to make the plywood core perhaps 20mm longer and wider than the endgrain veneers, therefore leaving a 10mm protrusion/tenon all the way around, and then mortise the frame pieces to suit. Obviously that wouldn't work for a narrow frame, but my initial concept was that the frame would likely be the same width as the endgrain squares. I normally reserve the right to change my mind when I lay it out on the bench prior to gluing - what I see in my head doesn't always look as good "in the flesh"!

That should be fine .

Unless there has been a specific reason to use something else, I've taken to using U-Beaut FoodSafe Oil for "ready for work" cutting boards, together with instructions to clean and dry a board and not leave it soaking in the sink. Hopefully that will also work for this one!!

Sounds good