Thread: Tools only sold in USA that you couldn't do without?

Pretty well summed up Lance. Even after many years at it, getting suckered is still a risk. The bright alloy stuff does nothing for me but show me some brass and I am like Homer Simpson eyeing off the cheese slices.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

This has been discussed before on these forums, and from memory, was shown to not be the case. For what it's worth, I did a bit of a simple comparison using a couple of tools (and I agree, it's not exhaustive, and there may be outlying exceptions):

A domino 500 Plus in Germany costs 963.96 Euros: https://www.festool.de/produkte/domi...-df-500-q-plus That works out today to $1592.78 Australian.
A domino 500 plus in Australia costs $1699.01, so here it is about $106 more expensive: DF 500 DOMINO Joining Machine Plus

A Kapex 120 REB in Germany costs 1541.64 Euros: https://www.festool.de/produkte/saeg...2---ks-120-reb That works out today to $2547.12 Australian.
A Kapex 120 REB in Australia costs $2065.00, so here this tool is cheaper by $482 than in the place of manufacture: KS 120 R KAPEX 260 mm Slide Compound Mitre Saw

An ETS EC 150/3 sander in Germany costs 640.32 Euros: Festool Exzenterschleifer ETS EC 150/3 EQ-Plus online That works out to $1058.17 Australian
An ETS EC 150/3 sander in Australia costs $1024.00, so here this tool is cheaper by $34 than in the place of manufacture: https://www.festool.com.au/ets-ec-15...us_576324.html

I intentionally set out to just show three products I happen to own, and made sure to get the same "level of set" for each of these tools - in case you're not aware, Festool sometimes bundle extra items with a tool and package it up as a "Set" or "Plus Set" etc. I did not pre-check any of these prices, I write out the above as searched out the products and links, so it's not "stacked" data to make an argument one way or another.

I don't believe this shows any price bias in Australia. There will always be minor differences in price simply due to exchange rates and potentially shipping costs - in one case as we see above there is a considerable price difference in *favour* of Australia, and overall, 2 of 3 products are cheaper here.

Yes, Festool is a more expensive product than the competition. Only the user can decide if that, and their "system" approach, is worth it for themselves.

Purchasing from Axminster the price is $1300 vs $1700 locally for the DF500. And the exchange rate isn't great right now either. There have been times where I have been able to import one for almost half the local price.

But you're right this has been discussed forever, some will pay the prices. I won't.

Originally Posted by LanceC

So my advise, save your money on gadgets and jigs, so that you can put it toward quality tools as you need them.

If you're looking to use hand tools, as a beginner, you can't do much better than Paul Sellers' videos to provide a solid woodworking foundation and what tools you *need* to get going.

Sounds very reasonable, Lance. You're right, I am still something of a beginner at woodworking.
I'll check out those Paul Sellers videos too!

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Of course, the Axminster price does not include shipping but it does include about $200 in accessories that are not included in the AU package.

The prosecution rests, m'lord.

Originally Posted by grapeseed

Tools only sold in USA that you couldn't do without?

None. I do not buy non-metric stuff!

Originally Posted by markharrison

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Of course, the Axminster price does not include shipping but it does include about $200 in accessories that are not included in the AU package.

The prosecution rests, m'lord.

????????

That is a very marginal quote. Add the cost of shipping and customs and GST and it is cheaper to buy in Australia - plus you get an enforcable warrantee.

I buy a lot of stuff overseas, but only when it is half or a third of the Aus cost or the product is simply unavailable here or the distributors are idiots. But the saving must justify the risks and effort.

I have to agree with Lance, I discovered Paul Sellars about 3 years ago, he does hand tool projects and uses just basic tools. I am on old bloke who had never built furniture but I have made a few of his projects now, curved sided keep sake box, garden/park bench seat, and recently finished his rocking chair, this is a great project.

I have three power tools I use, table saw, very old mitre saw I bought in the early 90's, and a second hand 14 inch band saw I have had for a bit over a year. I have various power tools I never use anymore.

I pay to subscribe to Pauls Chanel, but he has a lot free videos as well. Definitely worth a look.

George

Originally Posted by bueller

Purchasing from Axminster the price is $1300 vs $1700 locally for the DF500. And the exchange rate isn't great right now either.

Originally Posted by markharrison

Of course, the Axminster price does not include shipping but it does include about $200 in accessories that are not included in the AU package.

The prosecution rests, m'lord.

I may be wrong in this - I'm going on what I discovered about a year or so ago, but I believe a couple of things need to be taken into account.

From my understanding, Axminster won't ship Festool overseas any longer (they used to, I know) because it breaks their dealership agreement with Festool. (EDIT - Have checked this, found the 110V DF500 in stock at Axminster, set my country of shipping to Australia, and found I was *not* able to add the item to my cart despite it being in stock, which seems to indicate they are still unwilling to ship items overseas, at least to Australia).

Irrespective of that, even if you were to buy from Axminster or other, you get no local warranty with it, and any warranty service is either a paid-for repair locally, or you have to ship the item back to the UK for warranty. Whilst Festool stuff is pretty good quality, they can have failures, and it wouldn't take much to negate any savings you may make.

Having had a small problem with a Festool product recently, and getting local support, repair, and a loan unit whilst mine was being repaired made a local purchase worthwhile *for me* (I recognise, appreciate and respect that not everyone will agree with that).

All of that said - it examines a single item in greater detail, and simply confirms there is a difference, but I still don't see much to indicate Australia is being singled out and charged significantly more overall for these products, which was the original assertion I replied to.

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

From my understanding, Axminster won't ship Festool overseas any longer (they used to, I know) because it breaks their dealership agreement with Festool. (EDIT - Have checked this, found the 110V DF500 in stock at Axminster, set my country of shipping to Australia, and found I was *not* able to add the item to my cart despite it being in stock, which seems to indicate they are still unwilling to ship items overseas, at least to Australia).

Isn't this just illustrate my point. Festool tilts the balance so much that you are either UNABLE or it becomes too costly to buy it from wherever you think it gives you the best deal. Well fear not, I'm doing my bit to help keep the price down for all you Festools fans out there, by not participating in supporting the demands of their tools.

Originally Posted by justonething

Isn't this just illustrate my point.

Whilst I fully respect your opinion, I don't agree.

When you calculate the Axminster price, add the GST (which you will be charged), add customs duty (which you will be charged, I believe, as the item is over AUD$1000) and add shipping, you're not talking about any significant level of price difference really.

On that basis, I respectfully disagree that the tools are overpriced (which was the original discussion). Whether the manufacturer chooses to protect dealerships in various geographical areas by including restrictions as to where goods may be sold in their dealer agreement is immaterial, given that there is no major discrepancy in price.

It's pretty much the same thing as a courier franchise - you have a geographical area you are allowed to service, and customers outside that area belong to a different franchisee. Exactly the same principles apply here.

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

From my understanding, Axminster won't ship Festool overseas any longer (they used to, I know) because it breaks their dealership agreement with Festool. (EDIT - Have checked this, found the 110V DF500 in stock at Axminster, set my country of shipping to Australia, and found I was *not* able to add the item to my cart despite it being in stock, which seems to indicate they are still unwilling to ship items overseas, at least to Australia).

In another jurisdiction, different laws apply. In Australia, Australian Consumer Law applies and I can tell you they sail very close to the line in terms of how they manage their dealers. I don't think they cross the line, but they are not acting within the spirit of the law.

Festool's insistence on dealers forwarding sales information containing identifying information, however, is very probably in breach of The Privacy Act of 1988. I know I did not explicitly consent to my information being forwarded to Festool. I was a tad surprised to get an email from Festool after I bought a Domino.

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Irrespective of that, even if you were to buy from Axminster or other, you get no local warranty with it, and any warranty service is either a paid-for repair locally, or you have to ship the item back to the UK for warranty. Whilst Festool stuff is pretty good quality, they can have failures, and it wouldn't take much to negate any savings you may make.

UK buyers will have a warranty. We are comparing prices. My original point still stands.

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Having had a small problem with a Festool product recently, and getting local support, repair, and a loan unit whilst mine was being repaired made a local purchase worthwhile *for me* (I recognise, appreciate and respect that not everyone will agree with that).

If you are running a business off of these tools, that level of service may be a consideration. But if you had a problem with a sander; are you going to want to wait for Festool so you can finish a job, and get paid for it; or would you be better off just buying another sander while waiting for the broken one to be repaired? You can buy two Makita BO6050J machines (and there are other options if that doesn't suit) for the price of a 150mm Festool Rotex.

In any event, at the price Festool charges, there should be zero defects. If you tout yourself as a Rolls-Royce; you had better bring your A-game! English drivers of RR motor cars no doubt take their vehicles to Europe. I highly doubt RR in Europe are going to tell their customer to take their vehicle back to England if there was a problem while they were there...

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

All of that said - it examines a single item in greater detail, and simply confirms there is a difference, but I still don't see much to indicate Australia is being singled out and charged significantly more overall for these products, which was the original assertion I replied to.

Festool prices are consistently higher here than elsewhere by about the same margin. See my point earlier about their abrasives lines. There can be no excuse for that except; because they can, so they will. Nobody expects after sales service on a consumable like abrasives.

Originally Posted by markharrison

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Of course, the Axminster price does not include shipping but it does include about $200 in accessories that are not included in the AU package.

The prosecution rests, m'lord.

And also does not include the 10% duty for goods over $1000.

Originally Posted by markharrison

Festool prices are consistently higher here than elsewhere by about the same margin. See my point earlier about their abrasives lines. There can be no excuse for that except; because they can, so they will. Nobody expects after sales service on a consumable like abrasives.

They can charge what they like, even double what they do now if they want but no one here or anywhere has to buy the product. This topic is repeatibly raised, everyone wades in and it dies again and anyone interested can read the threads quite easily and avoid going over old ground. It is a German thing I think, Volkswagen are now doing it defacto via online selling, Rotax Bombadier have done it in the past but they are a Canadian company and I am sure there are others. To repeat all that has been siad in the past would be pointless but I do agree with one thing and that is the dealers who have to make the big investments know what price they are going to sell at. There are lots of instances of RRP not captured and these happen by circumstance rather than deliberate policy by the company involved. Any company that sells a product in this country direct direct to the public as a sole supplier in effect does exactly the same as Festool without the intent.

Originally Posted by markharrison

....
Festool's insistence on dealers forwarding sales information containing identifying information, however, is very probably in breach of The Privacy Act of 1988. I know I did not explicitly consent to my information being forwarded to Festool....

My understanding is that Festool sell via an "agency system" similar to that used by many white goods manufacturers. You do not buy a Miele from Harvey Norman - you actually buy it direct from Miele and HN is simply their agent.

Naturally Festool know the names of their customers.

Originally Posted by markharrison

...
I was a tad surprised to get an email from Festool after I bought a Domino.
....

Why did you buy a Domino if it was so grossly overpriced?