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20th April 2017, 04:08 PM #76GOLD MEMBER
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I should take that back. Obsolete is an overstatement. They're just way more relevant for maintaining fleam angles on crosscut saws than they are for maintaining zero fleam on a rip saw.
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20th April 2017 04:08 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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21st April 2017, 09:32 AM #77
I use the Veritas filing guide, excellent and simple tool.
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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21st April 2017, 10:45 AM #78
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21st April 2017, 09:19 PM #79GOLD MEMBER
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- Mar 2015
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- Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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Decided I wanted a decent dovetail marking gauge but didn't want to stump up for a Sterling Toolworks Saddle Tail so made a clone last night.
Worked out alright. 25mm wide and 40mm length of each leg so plenty of registration surface. 1/8 slope.
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21st April 2017, 09:26 PM #80
Seriously DomAU, you made this? Wow!
Your metal skills are amazing.
Perhaps I could buy one off you!!?
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21st April 2017, 09:28 PM #81
Damn mate, that came out beautiful! If you make another one I'd love to see your process in some detail [emoji846]
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21st April 2017, 09:58 PM #82GOLD MEMBER
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Haha, thanks mate, hardly amazing though!
If you like that you'll probably also like the dovetail square I made recently;
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21st April 2017, 10:45 PM #83
Are a man after my own heart
Polished metal and wood can't beat it
Cheers Matt
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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22nd April 2017, 09:47 PM #84GOLD MEMBER
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- Mar 2015
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- Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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Hey mate, on this unfortunately I'm not sure I could make them quick enough to the level of quality I'd be happy providing at a price that would be worth it for anyone involved. Also, as I virtually copied the Sterling Toolworks version it wouldn't be right and probably in some ways like stealing from them.
I'm humbled you think it's good enough to sell though. Thanks for the compliment.
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23rd April 2017, 07:05 PM #85
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23rd April 2017, 07:34 PM #86
Actually Luke, I think filing-guides are most useful for setting rake angles. That, in my view, is probably the most critical angle of all. Getting the right (& consistent!) rake angle to suit your sawing style & what you're sawing makes a huge difference to how the saw feels. Most common angles are around 5-7* (negative) for rip saws and 10 -15* for crosscuts. I only use the filing guide when toothing-in a saw or cleaning up one that has suffered from some amateurish attention (as many of mine did in my early sharpening days! ) I use the Veritas guide - it's simple, & works really well, but it's far from essential. If you are a bit short on the folding stuff, a stick works every bit as well as a guide for setting rake angles. I don't use the guide for the sharpening step. You shouldn't need a guide for the 90* edges of rip teeth, and I just draw a series of lines on the jaws of my saw vise (at the desired angle) as a guide for the fleam angles of crosscut teeth.
Fleam angles (for crosscut teeth), oth, are far more forgiving than rake angles. These are usually in the range 15-20 degrees, but there is a lot of leeway. Plus or minus 5 degrees from what you are aiming for will make very little discernible difference, in my experience (as long as you are consistent!). There is an exception, which you probably don't need to know about, & that is the 'extreme' fleam as used on the old Disston 77, tapered plate backsaw. I'm still figuring this tooth configuration out (but becoming very enamored of it!), but for the record, it enables you to use the saw with no set. I used to think it was the tapered plate on the 77 that gave it the ability to run without set, but it seems to be more to do with that unusually acute fleam angle (45*) than the plate taper. It seems it has to be pretty close to the magic 45 to work properly, but I can't tell you just why, yet.
I would not like to give the impression that saw sharpening is easy, it's definitely the most challenging sharpening job for me, but it's so rewarding when you start to get it right. Sharp, straight-cutting saws of whatever type are possibly even more satisfying to use than sharp chisels & planes!
Cheers,IW
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24th April 2017, 12:03 PM #87
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28th April 2017, 10:20 PM #88GOLD MEMBER
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Still waiting on my lie nielsens. About 5 hours after I ordered them I received a detailed response from Mark at Bad Axe! Oh well.
One interesting point made in response to a question I asked concerning the merits of dedicated cross-cut filing on a carcass saw vs "hybrid-filing" was that Mark believes that crosscut filing, aside from proving a marginally cleaner cross-cut, results in far slower cutting and far less longevity in terms of sharpness, particularly in tough timbers, so he recommends his hybrid filing even if a saw is to be used exclusively for cross-cuts. The added benefit is it is only slightly slower for rip cuts. Thoughts?
Also I knocked up another dovetail gauge. 1:6 and 1:4 combination to give me 3 choices.
Aside from a couple of quick through dovetails no time for any real dovetails due to stressing on two essays for my Business Masters Study coupled with a crazy period at work.
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29th April 2017, 12:42 PM #89GOLD MEMBER
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This is something I've considered, Dom. Paul Sellers is another who is in favor of making all saws a rip cut profile.
I think a lot of this boils down to the fact that saw SHARPENING is such a lost art. There just aren't that many people out there who can do it consistently and do it well. For many woodworkers, it's not like sharpening a plane blade. That's a skill you can get about 90% there with in a few nights of practice, and 100% there after a few months, as long as you have the theory down.
Saw sharpening is tough. Unless you're regularly restoring or making saws, then the practice required to get good at it requires a serious amount of hand saw use or deliberately blunting the teeth repeatedly.
I don't presume to claim that I'm good at sharpening saws, but I think I have the right approach. When the saw is underperforming, I just bite the bullet, borrow my shopmate's saw vise, and get to it. It's just gotta happen.
And, with all of that said, sharpening a crosscut saw is a LOT harder, in my opinion. So when you combine the lack of understanding that the masses have of sharpening, and you throw in the fact that one profile is a lot harder for a somewhat small return in performance, you are left with the philosophy that a hybrid or rip-exclusive profile is better.
I, for one, disagree. I think a crosscut saw performs better in every way for crosscutting, and I intend to continue sharpening mine that way... poorly or not. It took me a long time to finally reach the conclusion that taking care of your tools will make your life as a woodworker drastically more productive and enjoyable, so I think it's worth going that extra mile to have dedicated crosscut saws.
Just my $AU0.02 .
Cheers,
Luke
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29th April 2017, 06:46 PM #90
Absolutely agree with Luke! Yes, I found it quite a bit harder to get passably competent at sharpening crosscut teeth, and yes, it didn't happen overnight. I have to confess, I started late, & would probably have given up if I hadn't gotten into making saws, which gave me a lot of practice at forming & sharpening teeth. If you get a new & well-sharpened saw, it's not so bad because you can give it several light 'touch-ups' before it needs more serious attention, including re-setting, so you can get the 'feel' for the angles & file-pressures involved.
But I'll stick my neck out & state that anyone who says there's not enough difference between crosscut & rip to make it worthwhile has probably never experienced a properly-sharpened crosscut saw, &/or has only ever sawn soft, dry, wood! This is certainly true for handsaws, where we're talking about 6-10 tpi beasts and some serious sawing, not just lopping off a softwood stud or an occasional tenon shoulder. When it comes to finer teeth (15tpi & over), you have a case. If your sharpening skills are a bit shaky, you are almost certainly better off sticking with crosscut profile on small teeth. You will get a bit more breakout than with an appropriate crosscut, but most of the time it won't matter (but they should still be kept sharp). As Luke once said, 'sharp trumps all', & I think that should be every woodworker's mantra.
I haven't heard that a crosscut saw dulls faster than a ripsaw before. I can't say I've noticed it - both types need to be sharp to work properly. Perhaps most people just don't know their saw is dull because it sneaks up gradually, and with ripsaws, the scraping action of the cutting edges does keep removing wood long after you should've taken it to the file. A crosscut saw will tell you it isn't happy much sooner - if those knife edges aren't doing their job severing the fibres cleanly, the saw will both cut slowly & tend to bind in a deeper cut. When it's all said & done, why would saw teeth need sharp edges any less than your plane blades & chisels do? Consider how far a saw tooth travels back & forth in just a few cuts, and compare that with what you'd expect between sharpenings from a plane blade (which, incidentally, is a good deal harder & tougher than a file-able saw tooth!), and it should put the matter in perspective....
Cheers,IW
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