Thread: Veneering a speaker cabinet

If this job was mine this is how I would approach it.

Go back to doing the 45degree mitre corners across the top. Buy a decent panel saw that can cut a long mitre accurately, or send it out to someone who has one.

Fix the veneer down before the board is cut. All the methods of attaching veneer to an assembled item are either slow or dodgy (as you are starting to find out). If you are selling things you make then to get the best price for them you need to be 100% confident something wont bubble 5 or 10 years down the track and ruin your reputation. The only way you are going to get that is to glue them up, put them in a big press, squeeze the %^$#% out of them and leave them overnight. Better still is to get someone else who is already set up to do this for you. By going to a local veneering outfit I can get boards pressed up with the veneer supplied for less then the cost of me buying the veneer so I expect you could find a good deal somewhere local too. (to clarify - by this I mean me supplying the board, them the veneer and pressing it, then me trimming and face sanding).

You can build a caul press yourself cheaply as you are only doing flat objects. Nothing wrong with using a vacuum press - its just overkill unless you are doing curved things.

You might also consider modifying your design slightly to include a thin strip of solid wood across the top edges - to protect against damage where the veneer might chip off. If the veneering is done properly, this shouldn't be necessary as the join between the veneer and the board should be way stronger then the board or plywood below. If you are using iron-on or something then it probably is necessary as the bond is mediocre.

cheers
Arron

To give another idea I would rebate the corners which gives a larger gluing surface and seeing its Birch Ply wood moment is not an issue. That way you can either veneer first of after construction of the box.
in either case I would finish off the edges with some solid timber edging.
1. It looks good
2. It is far less prone to dings and dents from chairs, children and canines.

A smaller example of what i'm saying is this box.
Made of birch ply with veneer and solid edging.

For speaker box panels I would prefer to use paper backed veneer as it's already flat seldom splits or break while using it. Word of caution though you haven't much to play with in finishing sanding it's anywhere from .2 -.3mm where as production full veneer can range from .6-.8mm

For glue if natural veneer I always use hide glue for paper back any wood glue will do.

The other thing to remember when veneering is whatever you do to one side has to be done to the other to maintain structural balance. With veneer only on one side will in many case cause cupping in the sub-straight material and separation or splitting of the joints.

Cheers

Steve

have you considered using a laminate like laminex etc? It would be much easier and no finish needs to be applied. In addition, the lack of solid timber lippings would make it very easy to damage the veneer.

I guess the speaker is already assembled and glued so it would too late to 'balance' the veneer (applying veneer/laminate on both sides) however, if the box is strong enough (if it has reinforcing ribs and dowels inside) then you may be able to get away with veneering/laminating single sided - I've done it on a personal project with no issues as I added a lot of reinforcing ribs.

No need for vacuum bags - a lot of clamps, flat boards, scrap newspapers and good veneering glue is what I use. But they do help a lot...

concentrate on what you are good at -- which appears to be designing, assembly and selling

outsource the wood maching
contract someone to cut particle board or ply slightly undersise.
attach solid wood lippings on all edges of the board -- use the same species as you will use for the veneer -- masking tape is an adequate clamp for lippings
sand the lippings flush with the board surface
send the boards out to be veneered on the show and hidden faces
have the boards finish sanded, cut to final dimensions and the mitres cut for the joins
use your CNC rig to cut the speaker holes
Assemble the boxes
finish them and sell 'em

trying to do everything in house will likely require an investment in machinery that you never recover through increased sales.

Thanks for all the replies.

One of the problems, a big one, is that I need to make this a profitable operation. I used to outsource woodwork and besides the fact it killed any profit (or made sale price too high) I had problems with the work not being up to the required high standard occasionally and delivering late, poor communication etc.. I worked with one cabinet makers who was brilliant but they were also prohibitively expensive! I may not have all the skills of a pro but I can learn fast and I only need to learn exactly what I need for each job. When I do, I am fully in control of all details and my cost is kept reasonable.

I am looking into getting a vacuum table for my CNC machine so I could then try using pre-veneered stock and using miter joins. Pre-veneered would speed me up greatly. I might also do a rebated miter (like this)to keep good cabinet size tolerances.

Another option that I thought of is to do the standard rebated joins as I have on this prototype cabinet and then round-over the edges possible allowing a flexible veneer to wrap around in one go.

With regards to the solid wood lipping, this could be done but I honestly don't like the old fashioned look. I plan to leave the exposed ply showing and lacquer it up along with the rest of the cabinet. People tend to take good care of their expensive speakers so it doesn't need to be tough. I have also considered painting the lip with a strong black paint. I tried black edging but it just looked cheap.

Laminex stuff is nice because it is strong and presumably flexible, but products in this high-end market sector need to be real wood veneer really.

Originally Posted by Tenson

Thanks for all the replies.

One of the problems, a big one, is that I need to make this a profitable operation. I used to outsource woodwork and besides the fact it killed any profit (or made sale price too high) I had problems with the work not being up to the required high standard occasionally and delivering late, poor communication etc.. I worked with one cabinet makers who was brilliant but they were also prohibitively expensive! I may not have all the skills of a pro but I can learn fast and I only need to learn exactly what I need for each job. When I do, I am fully in control of all details and my cost is kept reasonable.

I am looking into getting a vacuum table for my CNC machine so I could then try using pre-veneered stock and using miter joins. Pre-veneered would speed me up greatly. I might also do a rebated miter (like this)to keep good cabinet size tolerances.

Another option that I thought of is to do the standard rebated joins as I have on this prototype cabinet and then round-over the edges possible allowing a flexible veneer to wrap around in one go.

With regards to the solid wood lipping, this could be done but I honestly don't like the old fashioned look. I plan to leave the exposed ply showing and lacquer it up along with the rest of the cabinet. People tend to take good care of their expensive speakers so it doesn't need to be tough. I have also considered painting the lip with a strong black paint. I tried black edging but it just looked cheap.

Laminex stuff is nice because it is strong and presumably flexible, but products in this high-end market sector need to be real wood veneer really.

Hi Tenson

to really help you we need to understand the scale of your small business

are you making 5-10 speaker units a week,
5-10 units per month
or around 20-30 each year?

also what machine and hand tools do you have already ?

the answers will help us help you.


I'm not sure of the situation in Kent, but here I can buy an 8x4 sheet of particle board or furniture ply cut to size from a commercial operation for less than the cost of the 8x4 sheet direct from a board supplier. The reason is the commercial operation buys the material by the truck load at a price that is around half what my local board supplier sells at.

But I accept that in the UK the situation may be different.



What follows is based on you making a small number of units per month.

veneering a completed assembly is a difficult but doable activity. The bigies are the probable failure rate and what you need to invest in to ensure you get a first class result.
On balance veneering before assembly and preferably before cutting components to size is much, much easier and also low risk -- read very few failures.


However, to do it well you need a means of applying uniform pressure across the substrate. One option is a vacume bag, another is a press.
Remember both sides of the substrate need to be veneered.

after veneering the panel will need to be sanded on both sides and trimmed to size. A drum sander is preferred for this step to keep everything flat.
If you don't have a high quality saw blade and means of sawing very straight lines at 90° to each other, you can cut close to the line and finish to the line with a very sharp hand plane supporting the panel in a jig to keep everything square. I suggest you don't use a router as the risk of tear out or burnt edges -- which would require lots of sanding to fix is too high.

Mitre joints can also be cut this way -- get to within a mm and degree or so with your machinery and then finish with hand tools with the panel secured in a suitable jig.
if you want to use a lock mitre, these can be cut with hand held router provided the panel is supported in a suitable jig.

Thanks Ian,

I think maybe the best option is to cut the panels then veneer then assemble. Even if I keep the rebate joins I can still veneer before assembly and just leave the veneer slightly over-size on the top and bottom to cover the rebate.

Hopefully I'll be selling about 4 pairs a month. However I can cut panels in advance and then assemble later. Storing the panels under weight on a flat surface of course to keep them flat. I know birch ply shouldn't move, but it does a little.

I've got lots to work with here. I do plan to outfit my CNC machine to have a vacuum table so that will hopefully give me more options too.