Thread: Veneers, wth?

This one will open a can of worms

there is an art to veneering. Much more skill required to make a curved piece of furniture/cabinetry with highly figured veneer than slapping together a solid timber frame.

Much more skill required to make a curved piece of furniture/cabinetry

Granted, but Waldo was talking about

veneer ply

slapping together a solid timber frame

...tsk tsk...wash your mouth out


Glenn

Originally Posted by martrix

there is an art to veneering. Much more skill required to make a curved piece of furniture/cabinetry with highly figured veneer than slapping together a solid timber frame.

Not to mention heaps more fun. Its one of my Woodworking New Years resolutions to go 50/50 this year with veneer and solid.

Originally Posted by martrix

Much more skill required to make a curved piece of furniture/cabinetry with highly figured veneer

No argument there (not that I know one bit about it) but why when it's not curved would you and to ply? It's like 1/4 of the stuff in FWW at times is veneer and it has me perplexed to its seemingly wide use.

Passing something off that it isn't that's only wafer thin?

Might as well go to Ikea or worse the $2 shop and buy a complete bedsuite because it looks like some whizz bang timber but you know it's not but you bought it because you want to impress.

Veneer allows you to do so much more than you ever could with solid timber. After all, its only a 1/4mm of the timber surface you actually see.

Hi Waldo,

Well,.. firstly, have to admit to knowing way less about veneering than you, but, I would have thought that perhaps cost has something to do with it. I came accross a massive burr Walnut wardrobe in an antique shop ages ago and boy did it look fantastic, even though I knew it was veneer I still liked it very much. Solid Walnut would have cost the earth I think.

Am not sure anyone would have thought it was solid timber, so perhaps no deception was intended, just to make a beautiful 'looking' piece of furniture may have been the aim.

Sorry I did not buy it now. Veneering also makes the timber go further, more pieces from the same amount of timber, an environmentally sound principle to boot.

Cheers
Pops

Waldo - is your question "why use ply as a base for veneering, or why veneer in the first place?"

The answer to the former is that ply (good ply, that is) makes a more stable substrate, less likely to warp, move & otherwise destroy your beautiful veneered surface. Older pieces were often veneered over cheaper or less spectacular solid wood panels, and many of these have cracked, or the seasonal movement has 'telegraphed' through the surface.

As to why veneer, others have already suggested the reasons:
*It makes valuable & spectacular wood go much further
*It allows for bookmatching & other techniques to create interesting designs
*It allows construction of forms that would be difficult or structurally unsound if made from the solid
And probably other good reasons I can't think of at the moment...

I think that many of us who grew up in the immediate post WW2 era watched a lot of plywood furniture delaminate & self-destruct & have a strong prejudice against the stuff, but if the ply is well made & glued with 'permanent' glues, & turned into well-made furniture, it is likely to survive a lot longer than some of the poorly-made solid wood crap I've seen for sale....

Cheers,
(From a bloke who prefers to work with solid wood! )

Originally Posted by martrix

Veneer allows you to do so much more than you ever could with solid timber. After all, its only a 1/4mm of the timber surface you actually see.

Your handiwork? if so excellent stuff I have found once woodies start with vacuum veneering they get hooked very quick. Its addictive.

I would use veneered plywood for door panels with a solid timber frame around it. For the obvious reasons: more stable, all doors can have the same grain pattern, cheaper (shouldnt be the deciding factor in my opnion, but it plays a role) etc.

Originally Posted by Rhys Cooper

I would use veneered plywood for door panels with a solid timber frame around it. For the obvious reasons: more stable, all doors can have the same grain pattern, cheaper (shouldnt be the deciding factor in my opnion, but it plays a role) etc.

Rhys - I doubt a properly made & veneered panel would be cheaper, in most cases - more work than a solid wood panel, & many veneers are not cheap!

But agree with your other reasons...
Cheers,

My question on thinking is more to do with why use ply as the substrate?

For me it really is akin to the bodgy Bunnies laminated chipboard laundry cupboard we have. Veneering on solid timber sits okay with me, on ply no matter what the finished piece is just to me sounds dodgy.

I don't mean that in a bad way as it is a matter of taste.

But to be the devils advocate you could ask why is solid timber okay with me when ply isn't? You can use the same for one substrate being no different to the other.

I'm puzzled as to why you would build/craft something when basically it's veneer over ply. In the end the result is the same, aesthetically. Past members, Auld Basson comes to mind who built a great looking table that weighed a tonne which was veneer. And not casting any disparaging remarks to his work, it's just an example.

The person who makes such things might only know it is ply underneath. I understand the remark by IanW about movement, so maybe to write that solid timber sounds to me to be more reasonable cancels itself out in some construction with ply.

For me, the main reason to use ply would be its stability - providing it's good quality ply. Having said that, for most jobs I prefer to use solid timber, even if it is veneered, and design around the movement.

Most quality veneered pieces will always have an element of solid timber used in them, Legally in Australia you can call a piece made from veneered ply, mdf, hoop pine SOLID TIMBER even though its veneered.

What ever substrate you use there is still alot of skill and preparation to be able to veneer with confidence. Especially when it comes to some species,and then you have burls. Some of the most beautiful timbers in the world are sliced into veneers.

Absolutely nothing dodgy about it. It is an art all to itself.

Obviously the Harvey Norman type mass produced stuff leaves a lot to be desired.