Thread: Victoria to end native logging

Originally Posted by qwertyu

I have read a number of reports of vic forests logging in areas which are meant to be protected...

Yep, that's why it's being phased out. Vic Forests screwed themselves. Good riddance to them.

I need to dig it up but there was some really damning reports about how Vic Forests were managing things - basic things like not actually checking if logged areas had been reforested successfully. It's something we as both Australians and consumers should be angry about, we're paying the overheads for sustainable practice but getting nothing in return. Less than nothing - we're (for all intents) permanently losing forested areas.

Edit: Found it, from 2021: After the Logging: Failing to regrow Victoria’s native forests - Environment Victoria

WA to shut down forrest logging from next year.Going to play Devils advocate now that China has once again allowed Australia to export timber into their country are they just going to be taking Pine from from those plantations?

If native logging stopped all over AU will that be the end of Masonite?
Would Victoria closing down affect the Masonite supply?
Just interested. I don’t mind using a bit of Masonite once in a while.

An old growth forest is carbon neutral whereas a growing forest is a carbon sink.

If it's for carbon reasons then it makes no sense.

Taking large trees and locking the carbon away in well made furniture is clearly the best solution to the issue IMO, and I'm clearly not biased at all.

Vic and WA might have pulled the pin but good old QLD will happily destroy the little they have left for a quick buck! Just waiting to see how long it takes for them to start wiping out the few acacias that they didn't flatten for the chinese market before the freeze on exports. For some reason nobody in authority here seems to classify the acacias as useful or valuable in a forestry sense but the chinese will take all they can get - thousands of tons going into containers before they did the dummy spit but it's not from rainforest so there's no huggers to bring it to anyone's attention.

Eucalypt plantations were planted throughout South America and Europe meaning Australian timbers need not come from Australia.

Future generations will also ask why we were so profligate we were with our timber, and why there was so little effort forest management.

High quality local timbers will come from private land, felled and sawn by small mills which will affect cost and access. Gone will be the days of getting reasonable 'Tasmanian Oak' boards from Bunnings and big timber yards.

Originally Posted by AnthonySeiver

Gone will be the days of getting reasonable 'Tasmanian Oak' boards from Bunnings and big timber yards.

This is what I'm confused about.
What does "native forest logging" mean. Is the ban about logging in national parks?
How much of our hardwood comes from "native forest" vs plantations?
I can't imagine hardwood plantations would grow very fast.

Does this mean we won't be able to make hardwood furniture any more?
I would hate to think the only timber available in the future will be radiata.

And I thought there was already a nation-wide timber shortage? Why are we trying to increase exports to China?

About 5 years ago we had a big commercial job using Ironbark. The milled material was excellent and came from a mill down Eden way. As it turned out the logs were all sourced from Qld and the NSW mill just did the machining as the south coast has been heavily logged and there is no product left. The majority of it I am told was pulped and sent to china to make board products. What a crime and waste of our beautiful hardwoods.
As far as radiata pine studs etc for building materials that all seems to come from Europe. We were buying it in packs and it was nice material so asked the timber yard were it comes from , he said a warehouse up in Smithfield, Sydney after being imported from Europe

Originally Posted by John G

... I can't imagine hardwood plantations would grow very fast. ...

When I was working with tropical hardwood agroforestry many years ago we were getting typical annual growth rates of 25 cubic metres per hectare per year. Temporate timbers tend to grow slower, but in a plantation grow much faster than in the bush.

There are over 500,000 hectares of Tasmanian blue gum - E globulus - plantations in Western Australia. Here is one calculation of growth rates at 20 tonnes per hectare per year after 8 years:

Growth Rates - E globulus.jpg Annual = 160/8 = 20 t/h/yr.

But remember, plantation timber is quite different to bush grown. This can be illustrated by the hardness of bluegum measure by janka:

• Old growth - 12,
• Regrowth - 10,
• Plantation - 7.

By comparison, radiata pine in New Zealand has a typical growth rate of 30 m3 per heactare per year.
Just a moment...

Originally Posted by John G

What does "native forest logging" mean. Is the ban about logging in national parks?
How much of our hardwood comes from "native forest" vs plantations?
I can't imagine hardwood plantations would grow very fast.

Native forest logging as you’ve called it is done in State Forests, no logging is allowed in National Parks.

As for Plantation timber, because it is fast growing, it has wide growth rings and does move or collapse alot, plantation timber is planted in rows and well spread out , so it get more nutrients and sun, therefore grows quick.

State forest are generally seeded from the air and grow very close together which makes for tight growth rings and less movement or collapse. Native logging is generally about 80yrs between logging coupes, whereas plantation is something like 20yrs or so (I’m not familiar with plantation rotation) for similar size tree from native logging.

I’m friends with a few guys who are loggers, and they were harvesting stuff that their grandfather logged and replanted.

Originally Posted by John G

This is what I'm confused about.
What does "native forest logging" mean. Is the ban about logging in national parks?
How much of our hardwood comes from "native forest" vs plantations?
I can't imagine hardwood plantations would grow very fast.

Does this mean we won't be able to make hardwood furniture any more?
I would hate to think the only timber available in the future will be radiata.

And I thought there was already a nation-wide timber shortage? Why are we trying to increase exports to China?

I'm with you John when you say 'What does "native forest logging" mean. '
What does it mean if someone plants native trees on a large scale for future logging then decides to log them?
To me that sounds like native logging and it makes the most sense.
Why plant stupid pines to log that are really no good at all for anything when it is the native ones we should be cherishing.
World has gone mad if you ask me and I don't like it.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

... To me that sounds like native logging and it makes the most sense.

Why plant stupid pines to log that are really no good at all for anything when it is the native ones we should be cherishing. ...

It is not quite that simple, AB, no matter how appealing your logic.

Tasmanian blue gum - Eicalyptus globulus - is one of the most planted plantation timbers in the world, everywhere except Tasmania. The reason is the bugs and invertebrates that evolved simultaneously with blue gum and eat it. They also live in Tasmania. Plant the blue gum elsewhere and it probably has no natural enemies. It then thrives.

In Tasmania, the most planted gum tree in plantations is E nitens. It has no natural enemies in Tasmania (yet); they are all in Victoria.

The same with radiata around the world - all its natural enemies are in California. Only thing that does it harm is the sirex wasp, and that seems to be under control now.

Next time you are out of town, go for a walk in the nearest pine plantation. Apart from the rustle of the wind you will hear and see little - virtually no insects or other invertebrates, no animals, few birds, no butterflies, very little undergrowth. None of the local fauna can adapt to that environment. It is a green desert.

So ditch the pines for one.