Thread: A warning about household insurance

Originally Posted by rrich

Moby,
The problem, here in the US and probably Oz, Flood is a separately defined peril. We have to purchase separate policies for flood, earthquake and hurricane. .......

Ah defined events .....

That has been the issue with many claims in the 2019 floods here. Policy holders of adjacent homes insured with different companies have been treated very differently.

That event was exceptional rainfall over a small area of the region (the dam catchment and the affected suburbs) in a very short duration and that filled our earth filled flood mitigation dam to 250% capacity, forcing emergency releases of water, firstly to prevent dam failure, hence protecting the wider community.

The disaster management team were flying blind as several key rainfall & stream gauging stations failed (units or telemetry) so they had little warning of the quickly unfolding emergency. Essentially water releases did not start early enough, then were released at near max capacity causing (?) or exacerbating the flooding.

That is the key to some insurers ducking their responsibilities - what caused the flooding?? was it percolation, precipitation, naturally rising waters, or the emergency releases of water? Some of those properties were already flooded before the water releases, whilst others weren't but most likely would have been even without the water releases.

A real nightmare for some, as there are still policy holders of homes waiting finalization of claims & repairs. Then there is the "consequential damages" not covered - black mould making homes uninhabitable but are structurally complete and restored as far as the insurer/s are concerned - claim finalized.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Honest question - WHY is the USA so bad with these things?

On Reddit the horror stories are unending. Absolute tyranny. Absolute scumbaggery and absolute theft.

As an Aussie, maybe an ignorant one, but I have NEVER heard stories to this degree of .... bastardry... like this here.

Those that even get close, rare exceptions for genuinely strange stuff*, are on the ABC for a single day before the companies permanently change their policies.

* Here is a good example: Insurance giant GIO pursues Horsham couple for almost $78,000 over fire in rental property - ABC News


I simply cannot fathom why the USA seeks to retain a system that is blatantly hostile to 95% of the population. The "anti-socialism" stance is held by those who are MOST harmed by this very system.

As I said, mindboggling and almost inconceivable.

Did you realize that this is a good reason to drink?

Originally Posted by woodPixel

... I simply cannot fathom why the USA seeks to retain a system that is blatantly hostile to 95% of the population. ...

And who makes the biggest political donations?

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Honest question - WHY is the USA so bad with these things?

On Reddit the horror stories are unending. Absolute tyranny. Absolute scumbaggery and absolute theft.

As an Aussie, maybe an ignorant one, but I have NEVER heard stories to this degree of .... bastardry... like this here.

Those that even get close, rare exceptions for genuinely strange stuff*, are on the ABC for a single day before the companies permanently change their policies.

* Here is a good example: Insurance giant GIO pursues Horsham couple for almost $78,000 over fire in rental property - ABC News


I simply cannot fathom why the USA seeks to retain a system that is blatantly hostile to 95% of the population. The "anti-socialism" stance is held by those who are MOST harmed by this very system.

As I said, mindboggling and almost inconceivable.

Alas, some of our insurance companies are world class in the defined categories above.

I'm glad this conversation has come up. Let me tell you about an experience I am having with Comminsure right now.

In March this year, a young male driver lost control of his vehicle and ploughed into my front brick wall and into the garden (the driver was dazed but otherwise fine). No contest as to fault, and the driver is insured. Simple and should be sorted inside of two months. Right?

Ha!

The sum Comminsure have offered would not even cover the cost of the bricks. And they try and sell it as if they are doing me a favour to waive the excess; and yes, they have tried that on at least two occasions.

I was born at night; just not last night!

The kindest thing I can think to say about Comminsure is they are extremely unprofessional. That is sugar-coating it. They do not communicate. They do not follow up. At every step of the way. the only progress (if, in fact, that is what it is) has been made when I have actively followed up. You will wait on the phone for an hour for that communication to occur, mind you.

I fully expect this will be a full calendar year before this claim is resolved.

Insurance companies are only as good as their claim management. Any other metric is pointless.

If your home is insured with Comminsure (Or rather, you are paying Insurance premiums to Comminsure...) you should probably make other arrangements. Tonight.

There is an answer to the question as to why the USA is so bad. Actually it is very simple.
The USA has the best government that money can buy.
And Trump is only making it ...... Well.

My solution when the insurance company started to BS was to go straight to a lawyer. The check for the correct amount arrived within a week.

Originally Posted by Bohdan

My solution when the insurance company started to BS was to go straight to a lawyer. The check for the correct amount arrived within a week.

Usual advice if your business premises catch fire:

1. Ring your lawyer,
2. Ring the fire brigade.

Strictly in that order.

OMG Insurance. Where do I start.

To those who think we don't have those problems in Australia I am happy for you that you've never had them.

A friend got her house knocked off about 6 months after buying it. The way she was treated by NRMA was criminal. She thought she was doing the right thing shopping hard for a necklace that was stolen. Got a fantastic price. The assessor said they have a 300% markup in jewelery so paid her 1/3 the quote. It was disgusting.

They lost a lot of customers after that period and now they are much more accommodating. Meanwhile QBE who used to be expensive but wonderful has turned bad. Call center is in asia and they have NFI what's going on. I got a call asking when I'd get my car assessed when it was already in the panelbeaters. I am no longer a customer.

Suncorp after some natural disasters decided to play hardball. Seeing what they did to friends I will never give them a red cent.

They all go through bad periods, and the quality of repairs vary.

It never ceases to amaze me people buy teh cheapest policy and never bother to check what they are actually buying let alone claims service. I assume these are the same people who buy chinese MG's rather than spend a little more on a suzuki. Then I have to listen to them complain when a claim goes down the toilet.

I received the annual insurance quote for renewal and thought I had better update some parts that clearly needed changes. By the time I had finished the insurer declined to insure us because they have a ceiling amount they won't go over for domestic insurance so it was off to a broker.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

I received the annual insurance quote for renewal and thought I had better update some parts that clearly needed changes. By the time I had finished the insurer declined to insure us because they have a ceiling amount they won't go over for domestic insurance so it was off to a broker.

In my view, you should always use a broker. Several times I have asked for quotes and insurance companies have never beaten brokers for the same coverage - including the company selected by my broker.

But now you must also check that the "broker" really is a broker. A couple of the largest insurance companies have "broking" subsidiaries that routinely recommend inhouse insurance companies. Certainly not independent.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

In my view, you should always use a broker. Several times I have asked for quotes and insurance companies have never beaten brokers for the same coverage - including the company selected by my broker.

But now you must also check that the "broker" really is a broker. A couple of the largest insurance companies have "broking" subsidiaries that routinely recommend inhouse insurance companies. Certainly not independent.

Maybe. We had one major insurance claim while with the same company and it was an exceptionally smooth and trouble free experience.

Damian, with my calls to QBE, which are prob about 3 a year*, I've had only Sydney people answer.

I laugh when they say "Sydney" and crack a joke about something local to test. They get it right each time Maybe they just have good training

I've *personally* found them to be excellent, but as you say, I've not truly tested them with a monster claim (well, any claim that I've been at fault on). I must be an excellent customer!

Agreed on NRMA. They are UTTER BASTARDS.

When I was younger I was burnt beyond belief on their bastardry. At 25ish I put them on "my list" and have never had anything to do with them ever since. Never will.


Mr Cook - I've actually seen a journo article somewhere about this pretend broker thing somewhere quite recently. Apparently its a ruse to displace the comparison websites and squeeze their referrer fees. Quite the scandal. Let me see if I can find it.




* I'm a conscientious and vigorous updater of my budget spreadsheet

My advice (based on recent unfortunate experience) would be to use a good insurance broker....

We have been with the same local broker for about 14 years. Initially they came and inspected the property, discussed what cover we needed, and came up with about 4 options at various premiums for us to consider. They work with insurance every day, and have an understanding of various policies way beyond us mere mortals.

Over the years we only ever had one cause to claim - damage to our driveway caused by a very localised rain event. I didn't think we were even covered for that, but the broker managed to get us about $10K from the insurer for repairs.

In January 2020 we lost the house and almost all contents in the bushfires. The broker went into bat for us immediately, dealing with the insurer on our behalf. Other people in the street who had also lost homes had no idea what to do, this being probably the first time they'd ever had to navigate the small print of their insurance policy. My point is that an insurance broker knows how to play the game, and knows how to get things done. First cab off the rank was the contents insurance; the insurer was trying to minimise their payout by requiring us to list every item that had been lost, room by room, based purely on memory, at a time we were feeling pretty fragile after losing the house. The broker told them "No, that's not the way it is going to work, the policy says x, and you will be paying out the full amount insured." Within 14 days of the fire we had a full payout for contents.

Next was the house itself. The insurer had their people come to inspect, then started the usual "we think the house could be rebuilt for x" based on the floor area, without any regard for the fact that it was an architect designed home built to a very high standard by a local master builder. Discussion went to and fro for about a month, at the end of which the broker had "persuaded" them that they would be paying out the full amount insured, plus numerous extra amounts we didn't even know we could get ($ for fence repairs, $ for restoring the garden, $ for "energy efficiency improvements" on the new build, etc.). We've now finished the rebuild, moved back in to the new house, but still have lots of landscaping and other work to do ourselves. Meanwhile several other local owners of properties lost in the fires are still arguing with their insurer over their claims. The average punter doesn't stand a hope in hell against an insurance company when contesting a claim, and the the insurers know that. Going up against your insurer on your own is like turning up to a gunfight armed only with an old sock filled with gravel...

The broker we used charges a fee as a tiny percentage of the premium (I think 3-4%), but for that they still check the market every time we come around for renewal to get us the best deal. Needless to say they still have our business, and if it wasn't for them we probably would have given up, sold the land once the house had been cleared, and moved on.

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

... First cab off the rank was the contents insurance; the insurer was trying to minimise their payout by requiring us to list every item that had been lost, room by room, based purely on memory, at a time we were feeling pretty fragile after losing the house. ...

Didn't they also ask you to provide receipts for everything that had burned?