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  1. #46
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    Default

    Thanks guys, I like success stories also.

    I think I would put the the handle through when doing the real screws to try get a more consistent turning to prevent the burn marks.

    Keep an eye out on the workbench forum, it shouldn’t take me long to come up with some plans. I will probably just make something out of the Scott Landis book to save too much head scratching.

    Cheers

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonsey850 View Post
    ....I think I would put the the handle through when doing the real screws to try get a more consistent turning to prevent the burn marks....
    Yes, turning the thing consistently & smoothly is a problem, especially when making several screws in one session, yur fingers get pretty tired of turning that lump of wood! I've tried using a dowel in the handle-hole, but found that a bit awkward. My current solution, which works reasonably well, is to leave a small collar on the boss end, to attach a short handle, like this: New jig.jpg

    It's especially convenient when backing-out after the thread is cut...

    Cheers,
    IW

  4. #48
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    Default Making wooden vise screws

    Good idea Ian, I might have to use that one.

    Is there an alternative setup to get the thread all the way up to the boss?

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonsey850 View Post
    ... Is there an alternative setup to get the thread all the way up to the boss?
    Just remove the front of the jig, run the screw back in & you should be able to cut right up to the boss. To be able to do this, you need to have thought ahead & made the jig with enough clearance for the boss of the screw to fit over the router base as you screw it up to the cutter. It takes a bit of extra care to turn the screw evenly, without the pilot hole, it's easy to wobble it a bit & the thread may not be as perfect as you'd like.

    I don't think I've ever needed to cut the thread all the way to the shoulder on a bench screw, with most vise designs, you won't need any thread inside the moving jaw. Likewise, when making wooden handscrews (clamps) the bottom screw is left unthreaded for the length that will be inside the jaw, but I cut the thread all the way to the handle for the top ("pusher" ) screw. Here's a couple of pairs of screws to illustrate: 2 Threads.jpg

    One jaw is threaded in both holes (the one on the right in the pic below), the opposite has a hole at the major diameter in the centre, and a small hole 15-20mm deep to hold the end of the compression screw: 7 Crows ash_Rose alder.jpg

    These, or bar clamps are your next project....

    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #50
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    Hi Ian

    I was thinking about a shoulder vise, which would require the thread to go all the way up. I guess it could stop 10-20mm from the boss as the arm would be 80mm or so thick. So you could leave a short guide hole on the jig.

    Those timber clamps do look good and I would like to make some but I try not to get too far ahead of myself.

    Cheers

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonsey850 View Post
    ... I was thinking about a shoulder vise, which would require the thread to go all the way up......
    Ah, right! Hadn't considered that one - it's one type of wood-screw vise I've never made. I did seriously consider one when building my bench, but at the time I had a very cramped little basement workshop, and I feared the extra structure for the vise, plus the length of screw sticking out when holding anything other than a 25mm board on edge was too grave a risk to some vulnerable bits of anatomy!

    I'm glad I settled on the vise I did end up making, it has (serendipitously) turned out to suit my needs better but the "deep throat" of shoulder vises has some undeniable advantages and could be the better choice depending on the sort of work you do. But I'd encourage you to complete the thread & shave a coupe more inches off the length of screw sticking out from the static vise arm. There is really no problem threading up to the boss after removing the piece with the pilot hole from your jig, as long as the boss will clear the router base. Just try not to wobble the screw as you turn it, but don't fret, the effect on the thread is minor & any critic would have to look very closely to see it. If push comes to shove, & the boss doesn't clear, it's not that big a deal to make a new jig.

    I wouldn't be without my wooden handscrews. I made the first set many decades ago, driven more by curiosity than a belief they could be a substitute for the metal clamps I was slowly acquiring (very slowly! the darn things were relatively expensive back then). But they quickly became my preferred clamps, not only because I could make as many as I wanted for virtually no cost (ya can't have too many clamps, right!?), but because they are far nicer to use. The wide wooden jaws don't mark work the way metal jaws can, but they can apply more than enough pressure. Their only drawback is they are awkward to apply one-handed, & I occasionally have to resort to a couple of sliding F-clamps to hold the job while I get the woodies on, but the fact that the sliding jaws are often clogged with rust when I pick them up is an indication of how often that happens!

    On the strength of those I decided to try wooden bar clamps, and they too quickly became my go-tos for wide work. 1M bar clamps red.jpg

    There's more to these than the handscrews, the moving jaw has a few bits to it: Bar clamp mech.jpg

    But nothing too taxing, I managed to get my first attempt working well enough & they are still in regular use 30-something years down the track. I guess you can tell I'm a bit of a wooden-screw tragic...

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #52
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    Thanks Ian. I am considering the Scandinavian bench in the Landis book with the shoulder vise.

    The current jig I have may have issues with the boss fouling on the router base. But as you say it’s not hard to make a new one or modify the existing one. I will give it a go when I get chance.

    What size screws are you using for the hand and bar clamps?

    Cheers

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonsey850 View Post
    ...What size screws are you using for the hand and bar clamps?...
    Bar clamp screws are all 1", which I find works well. I have seen old bar clamps made using 1 1/2" or 1 1/4" screws, but they seemed unnecessarily bulky to me. You need to turn a clean spigot on the end of the screw in which to cut a groove for the 'garter' that locks the screw to the travelling jaw (see above illustration of the gubbins). For a 1" screw, you end up with about 3/4" diameter for the spigot, which doesn't cause any problems, but it might get a bit flimsy if you went any smaller. Of course, you don't have to attach the jaw & screw, the jaw could remain loose, but it's not very practical, you rarely have a spare hand when glueing up!

    Handscrews:
    Back around 1980, I stumbled on some 1/2", 3/4" & 1" 6tpi steel taps, which I got for pennies. But I didn't have a threadbox, & my first attempt at making one was a miserable failure, so my taps sat in a drawer for a couple of years until I saw the article in FWW on threading screws with a router.

    So, as a first tentative step I made a pair of 1/2" clmps, not really expecting them to be practical. However, as long as you don't tighten the jaws more than a few degrees off-parallel, they are surprisingly tough (I still have that first pair!) and this size is very handy for small work where bigger clamps get in the way. I ended up with many more, partly because of my curiosity about the threading capabilities of various woods I encounter. Half inch.jpg

    (That was the pile of 1/2" clamps before I had a good cull of all sizes last year ).

    The clamps I use far & away the most use 3/4" screws. These have jaws about 250mm long and 55-60mm wide, and open to about 250mm, which I reckon is the practical limit for that size screw. For furniture-making, I find this size the most convenient. The 1" jobs are pretty serious clamps, with 300mm jaws & opening to around 350mm - very handy occasionally, but certainly not used every day like the mid-size. Here are the largest & smallest for comparison, the other sizes mentioned fall between these two: One inch.jpg

    A couple of years ago, a mate with a real metal lathe (mine is a bit of a toy) made me a 5/8" tap, so I made a few clamps of a size between the 1/2 & 3/4, and last year, as a challenge to myself, I made a "mediaeval" style tap for 7/8" 6tpi. I reasoned the limiting factor would be the cutter hole, which would not have much wood around it for support in such a small diameter. It worked fine, though I would not try to go any smaller because the walls of the cutter hole are rather thin and likely to break away if he tap is forced too hard. So I made a batch of clamps using 7/8 screws, with jaws a bit longer & wider than my 3/4s, and they have proved to be extremely handy & get as much use as the 3/4s. Seven eigths.jpg

    So if you wanted to try some all-wood handscrews, and don't hve access to a metal tap (which are much more convenient & work very well in these sizes), you could make a 7/8" tap like you've already made for the 2", or make a 1" for bar clamps. Six tpi works very well in those sizes.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  10. #54
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    Default Retaining a wooden thread within a vice

    I HAPPENED to be looking at bookmaking and the various jigs enthusiasts use.

    They are quite nice.

    This one in particular shows the making of a wooden thread with a Beall and importantly, how it is retained within the part to be pushed/pulled.

    Its obvious when seen!

    A Simple Bookbinder's Laying Press and Plough

    Images are from the link above....

    img_2488.jpg img_2490.jpg

  11. #55
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    Very clever guy, thanks for sharing.

    This is a good idea. Two different size holes in handle.


  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    ......This one in particular shows the making of a wooden thread with a Beall and importantly, how it is retained within the part to be pushed/pulled.

    Its obvious when seen!

    Images are from the link above....

    img_2488.jpg ....
    That's quite nifty, WP. You'd want to be sure everything is fitting nicely before driving the two dowels home, as they would be hard to remove without causing damage. I'd drill through holes for the retaining dowels if possible, and make the dowels a bit fat on one end only so they lock in place when driven home, but could be tapped out from the other side if necessary. Things do wear & break, so I like to make my vises easily dismantled for repairs.

    The 'classic' way of capturing the screw in the moving jaw of a tail vise is with some sort of "garter". I use a full circle, but some old benches used just one half of this arrangement: vise screw & garter.jpg

    The garter can be exposed & simply screwed on the face of the jaw, or held in a rebate covered by a wooden plate like this: tail vise parts1.jpg

    I use the same style of garter for bar clamp jaws, but the two halves are inserted from the sides of the jaw & retained by a pair of cover-plates that extend down beside the bar. These plates prevent the moving jaw from slewing sideways when the jaw is tightened. Moving jaw assembly.jpg

    I've tried a couple of methods to prevent the jaw riding up as it's tightened. I started with a cleat attached to the inner side of the side-plates, which rides in a groove in the bar. For the one shown above I cut a slot through the bar and the guide is a single piece screwed to both plates. It holds the jaw together very nicely, but has to be made & assembled accurately so it slides smoothly in the slot in the bar.

    The 'fixed' jaw is straightforward. Rear jaw parts.jpg

    I thread the removable pin, which ensures it doesn't slip out, but I've seen other ways to retain it, like drilling a hole through the pin & using a small tapered dowel. Knowing my propensity for losing small bits I decided that method wouldn't work for me...

    Cheers,
    IW

  13. #57
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    sorry ladies, i'm late to the party, and i have recently acquired several different thread size's of Timber Tap and Die sets.

    when you are cutting your threads, do you soak your timber so its not tearing out dry, if so, what are you using to dampen the timber?

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumbler View Post
    sorry ladies, i'm late to the party, and i have recently acquired several different thread size's of Timber Tap and Die sets.

    when you are cutting your threads, do you soak your timber so its not tearing out dry, if so, what are you using to dampen the timber?
    Fumbler

    The proprietary sets tend to recommend Boiled Linseed Oil, but much depends on the timber type too.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumbler View Post
    ....when you are cutting your threads, do you soak your timber so its not tearing out dry, if so, what are you using to dampen the timber?
    Fumbler, this question was briefly addressed in part in post #35, but I think we were talking about a different system. I take it you have got a couple of 'traditional' threadbox & tap sets? If so, the approach is a little different from what we've been talking about up to this point.

    Metal taps usually don't need any lubrication, particularly in the smaller sizes (up to say 25mm). In virtually any wood I've tried (including radiata!), they can cut a very clean thread "dry". That's tapping across the grain, of course, trying to thread along the grain usually results in a larger hole with just a hint of thread!). Larger sizes of tap (1 1/2" plus) can be very very difficult to drive through our bone-hard woods because you're removing a lot of wood each revolution once the tap is fully engaged, and there is also a lot of friction. I find a bit of boiled linseed will definitely help to ease it through. Apply a few brush-fulls in the hole to be tapped, the oil should soak deeply into the two end-grain sides, which is where it dos most good because it is what resists the cutters most. Some of the commercial taps I've seen have a very short pilot end, and can be hard to start straight. One way to get a clean start is to use the drill press - set it up so you can drill the pilot hole then chuck the tap & start it without moving the workpiece (rotating the chuck by hand, of course!). A coupe of turns is usually sufficient to get you on track, & that's about all you'll manage anyway before it's too hard to turn.

    Apart from the physical effort required for very large sizes, you should have no problems with tapping.

    The old style threadboxes need a different approach from the router method we've been discussing in this thread. For starters, you'll need to be more selective in the woods you choose for screws. A good rule of thumb is if the wood peels nicely off a skew in long ribbons, it'll usually thread well. But there isn't a huge number of Aussie woods really good for threadbox threading. Apple or pear wood are among the best of the best, and some Apricot I tried many years ago was also excellent. These are my 'gold-standards', but there are others that will co-operate, as long as the cutter remains sharp (it won't if you try threading most eucalypts or other edge-dulling species!). For a good-threading wood, you won't need any oil-soaking, a rub-over & polishing-off with a bit of paste wax will keep the die running smoothly, but with some woods, oil can make the difference between a clean thread & a ragged mess. With brittle woods or a dull cutter, a crumbled mess and a large dose of frustration is all you'll get..

    I started wood-threading in Canada where it was easy to get hold of woods like Apple, Pear, Birch, Maple etc., which responded well to a threadbox, but I soon found most of the Australian woods I tried were not as co-operative. Soaking in linseed sometimes helped, but my results were too erratic to be worthwhile & I gave up, got rid of them, & have used the router jig method exclusively for 30 plus years now. I think if I had to use a threadbox now it would take me at least a week to get it working.

    With the right woods & properly set-up, a threadbox can cut a beautiful thread, but don't despair if you can't make much headway with yours. The essential starting-point for wood threading is the tap, with which you can easily make a router jig as has been demonstrated in this thread. Fitted with a carbide bit there is no wood, from balsa to lignum that won't yield to it....

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #60
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    Yes, these are the ones.

    ones a 1/2” and the other 3/4”

    DF94A45F-F1CD-485B-8884-AE0BD97E1338.jpeg 6D2C34C2-561B-401C-9ABD-1ACEE33D27A4.jpg C2A5E4EF-2A2A-44D2-81BF-0FA47984834E.jpg

    Ian, thanks, I have been commissioned by a mate for free of course to make him some vice handles, so wanted to make the handles look like a nut and bolt. I am using northern Silky oak and hope they turn out. Will post progress.

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