Thread: Woodworking History - Don't make em like this anymore!

Wow, that is really something. From a printers point of view the technique on the stone to create the image is very special. How is being conserved?


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TT thank you for sharing this wonderful piece of history.

It will touch a chord with most wood workers, I know it did for me. My dad was a chippy and general light industrial / house builder for most of his life. We went through some tough times in the building industry downturns esp the '70's so a couple of words on that certificate really ring true for me "Industry & Benevolance." My Dad had a rough start as a post depression kid in Sydney with a merchant seaman father who deserted him and his six surviving siblings. He saw the value in education, supported his younger siblings and also many others along the way through out his life with his generosity and masonic principles. I know I see those values in many of his generation and especially the tradies of that era, not so much now though, seems we are loosing the benevolance part, and now it seems most want the maximum reward for minimum work.

That is Glorious!! What a great piece of family history to have guardianship of.

LMany thanks for sharing!

What an excellent post Timeless. Such a fantastic piece of your heritage to hand down but always keep it out of any sunlight those watercolours fade very easily. Some interesting facts as well TT, well done

Steve

It's more of a work of art than a certificate. Makes my crappy little NSW Apprentice Certificate look very ordinary....

Is the certificate printed on a gloss stock, or has it been laminated?

TT

Wow that is beautiful, something to really treasure, Cheers Richie Rich

Its a glossy large poster sized photograph of the original water color certificate - not the original of the certificate if that makes sense. The original is stored away the large poster photo is framed and hung - I took a digital photo of the photo (to be able to post it up here) and the flash shows on the gloss finish in the center of the framed photo.

I had this large photo done years ago, and framed and hung in our furniture display showroom. I just happened to find it again when cleaning up my shed to make room to work in it. Now I have to figure out where to hang it.

A while back - I found a family heirloom similar aged framed copy of a Harry Payne Print from the Boer War 1898/9 hand signed by Admiral Wolesely - called "sons of the empire" and depicting all of the various military branches of the British Empire at th e time including an Aussie slouch hat wearing representative from Victoria. (2nd left at front near the horse). He'd have been a contemporary of Breaker Morant no doubt.



As there are no surviving military members of this family - I donated it to the War Museum in Canberra where hopefully all Australians can view it at some point in time. They couldn't give a guarantee it would be displayed - they might keep it in storage or maybe sell it to a collector to raise funds I guess to maintain their collection or whatever.

I just haven't the room these days to keep all this old stuff from previous generations. Our kids don't seem to have any interest in the history of our family - too busy on their IPhones or playing fricken world of warcraft etc.

I feel like ol Ted Bullpit - "someone should kill all bloody kids!".

Thanks Timeless
It conerns me when i see some treasured document that has been laminated in the belief that they are saving it.

TT

Another great piece of history!!

Notice how all the folk in the picture are posed? that was a common way
to do things back then. People were posed as if there was nothing much to
bother them and that comes through in the facial expressions.

This is an excerpt of the email from "Kelly" the curator lady at the Australian war memorial in Canberra had to say about the Aussie representative

You might be interested to know that we have been able to identify one of the figures as a member of the Victoria Mounted Rifles. This is the individual standing near the horse, on the far left of the print, in the foreground holding a rifle.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards,

Kelly (redacted by me in interests of her privacy)

Assistant Curator / Documentation Officer | Art Section

Australian War Memorial

From Wikipedia..

Breaker Morant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early life

Accounts of Morant's life before the Boer War vary considerably, and it appears that Morant fabricated a number of these romantic legends. Morant is often described as being 'well-educated' and claimed to have been born in 1865 at Bideford, Devon, England^[1] and to have been the illegitimate son of Admiral Sir George Digby Morant of the Royal Navy; a claim repeated as fact by later writers, although the admiral denied it.^[2][3] It is alleged that Morant entrusted his cigarette case and other personal belongings to Major Bolton, the prosecuting officer during the later courts-martial with the words "see that my family gets them". Years later, when Bolton's daughter allegedly tried to hand them to the family of Sir George, she was sent away and told Morant was not related to them.^{[citation needed]} It has been suggested^[who?] that the young Morant came into the care of a wealthy Scottish author, soldier, hunt-master and golfer, George Whyte-Melville. Like other stories there is no evidence for this theory.
The results of enquiries made in 1902 by both The Northern Miner and The Bulletin newspapers identified him as Edwin Henry Murrant who had arrived at Townsville in Queensland on the SS Waroonga in 1883.^[4] Murrant was born at Bridgwater in Somerset, England in December 1864, the son of Edwin Murrant and Catherine (née Riely).^[4][5] Edwin and Catherine were Master and Matron of the Union Workhouse at Bridgewater and after Edwin died in August 1864, four months before the birth of his son, Catherine continued her employment as Matron until her retirement in 1882.^[4][6] She died in 1899 when Morant was in Adelaide, South Australia, preparing to leave for South Africa.
Morant settled in outback Queensland, and over the next 15 years, working in Queensland, New South Wales and South Australia, the charismatic roustabout made a name for himself as a hard-drinking, womanising bush poet and gained renown as a fearless and expert horseman. Harry Breaker Morant was one of the few horsemen who managed to ride the notorious buckjumper, Dargin's Grey, in a battle that became a roughriding legend.^[1]
Morant worked in a variety of occupations; he reportedly traded in horses in Charters Towers, then worked for a time on a newspaper at Hughenden in 1884, but there are suggestions^[who?] that he left both towns as a result of debts. He then drifted around for some time until he found work as a bookkeeper and storeman on the Esmaralda cattle station.

On 13 March 1884, Morant married Daisy May O'Dwyer, who later became famous in Australia as the anthropologist Daisy Bates, but the couple separated soon after and never formally divorced; Daisy reportedly threw him out after he failed to pay for the wedding and then stole some pigs and a saddle. He then worked for several years as an itinerant drover and horse-breaker, as well as writing his popular bush ballads, becoming friendly with famed Australian poets Henry Lawson, Banjo Paterson and William Ogilvie.


Military career

At the time Morant volunteered for military service (in 1899), the formal federation of the Commonwealth of Australia was still two years away. Australia consisted of separate self-governing colonies, each of which was still subject to the British Crown. Because the population included many British immigrants, most Australians still had strong ties to "The Mother Country". Consequently, thousands of Australian men volunteered to fight for Britain in the Second Boer War, which pitted British colonial forces against the Boers in South Africa.
Evidently, seeing this as a chance to return to England and redeem himself in the eyes of the family he had left 16 years before, Morant enlisted with the Second Contingent of the South Australian Mounted Rifles. While in Adelaide, Morant was reportedly invited to visit the summer residence of the South Australian governor, Lord Tennyson. After completing his training, he was appointed lance corporal and his regiment embarked for the Transvaal on 27 February 1900.^[7]
In many respects, the terrain and climate of South Africa is remarkably similar to that of outback Australia, so Morant was in his element. His superb horsemanship, expert bush skills, and educated manner soon attracted the attention of his superiors. South Australian Colonel Joseph Gordon recommended him as a dispatch rider to Bennet Burleigh, the war correspondent of the London Daily Telegraph; the job reportedly provided the debonair Morant with ample opportunity to visit the nearby hospital and dally with the nurses.
The statement of service Morant tendered at his trial is quoted, apparently verbatim, in the book written by his friend and colleague, George Witton. According to that account, Morant was commissioned as a lieutenant in the Bushveldt Carbineers (BVC) on 1 April 1901. Prior to that, he had served in the South Australian Second Contingent for nine months. During that duration, he was promoted to the rank of sergeant. Subsequently, he returned to Devon, England for a period of time.
In March 1900, Morant carried dispatches for the Flying Column to Prieska, under Colonel Lowe, 7th D.G., who was in the general advance to Bloemfontein and took part in the engagements of Karee Siding and Kroonstadt, and other engagements with Lord Roberts until the entry into Pretoria. Morant was at Diamond Hill and was then attached to General French's staff, Cavalry Brigade, as war correspondent with Bennet Burleigh of the London Daily Telegraph. He accompanied that column through Middelburg and Belfast to the occupation of Barberton. At this point, he took leave and returned to Devon, England for six months. Here he became close friends with Captain Hunt, and the two of them became engaged to a pair of sisters. Hunt, who was still 'signed on', returned to South Africa to take command of a regiment in the Bushveldt Carbineers, whereas Morant (who had intended that his military service come to an end) followed him shortly after not having found the forgiveness he sought in England. Originally returning to take up a commission in Baden Powell's Transvaal Constabulary, he was convinced by Hunt to instead accept a commission in the BVC.


Boer guerrilla campaign, 1901–1902

Following their defeats on the battlefield during 1899–1900, the Boer soldiers embarked on a guerrilla campaign against the British. In response, Lord Kitchener, the British commander in South Africa assembled and deployed a number of irregular regiments to combat Boer commando units and protect British interests in the region.
On his return from leave, Morant joined one of these irregular units, the Bushveldt Carbineers, a 320-strong regiment that had been formed in February 1901 under the command of an Australian, Colonel R.W. Lenehan. Following his friend's lead, Captain Hunt joined the BVC soon after.
The regiment, based in Pietersburg, 180 miles (290 km) north of Pretoria, saw action in the Spelonken region of the Northern Transvaal during 1901–1902. The region was remote, wild and dangerous and was also in a particularly unhealthy malarial area. Because of this, the British had difficulty in finding troops and as a result, many colonial soldiers enlisted.
About forty percent of the men in the BVC were Australians, but the regiment also included about forty surrendered Boers ("joiners") who had been recruited from the internment camps, and according to Witton, their presence was greatly resented by the Australians. The garrison was soon divided into two columns; one, under the command of Lieutenant Morant, operated in the Strydpoort district, about 30 miles (48 km) south-east of Pietersburg.
Morant's unit was very successful in eliminating roving bands of enemy commandos from their area, forcing the Boers to transfer their activities to the Bandolier Kop area, on the northern fringe of the Spelonken. In response, the BVC moved north under the command of British Captain James Huntley Robertson and established a command post in a farmhouse about 90 miles (140 km) north of Pietersburg, which they renamed Fort Edward.
The other ranking officer at the fort was Captain Alfred Taylor, a special officer with the Army's Intelligence Department. He had been selected and sent to Spelonken by Kitchener himself because of his knowledge of "the natives". In his book, Witton wrote that as far as the Africans were concerned:

“

"...(Taylor) had a free hand and the power of life and death; he was known and feared by them from the Zambesi to the Spelonken, and was called by them 'Bulala', which means to kill, to slay."[8]

”

Taylor had the power to order out patrols and, according to Witton, it was generally understood that Taylor was the commander at Spelonken, and that Taylor admitted as much in evidence at the court-martial. Taylor was, as Bleszynski notes, implicated in some of the killings in the case, yet was acquitted of all charges. His role is one of the most problematic aspects of the case.
By all accounts, Captain Robertson had great difficulty in maintaining discipline, and some of his troops ran wild — they looted a rum convoy, kept seized Boer livestock for themselves, and appropriated liquor and stills from the Boer farms they raided. According to George Witton's account, the situation was bordering on mutiny by mid-year.
On 2 July 1901, Captain Taylor received word of a disturbing incident; a few days earlier, a group of six Boers had approached the fort, apparently intending to surrender, but they were intercepted by a British patrol led by Sergeant Major Morrison, and on his orders they were all disarmed, taken prisoner, and subsequently shot dead.
When this news reached Pietersburg, the Fort Edward detachment was recalled; after an enquiry, Robertson and Morrison were allowed to resign unconditionally. His squadron was replaced by a new one under the command of Captain Hunt and it included Lieutenants Morant, Handcock and Witton.

So it seems that this Harry Payne print from 1898 - which was sold interestingly I believe for a pound sterling to raise funds for the widows and orphans of the First Boer War campaign was taken BEFORE the breaker joined his regiment as a Lance Corporal of the South Australian mounted rifles as distinct from the Victorian Mounted rifles member depicted here!.

Indeed Australia wasn't even a federation until 1901?... so each of the States assembled their own volunteers to fight for Britain in Africa against the Boers.

Thus my "stretch" at this Victorian Mounted Rifles, being a contemporary of The Breaker... was a bit of a long bow to draw.... as the breaker was still a civilian in South Oz when this print was made signed and sold.

Oh well - I was close...for a guess.

Amazing how much of our history is being lost.

I feel we owe it to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for us to be able to live free in this the greatest country in the world today - to at least try and get it right and not to forget!.


I wonder who the actual member of the Victorian Mounted Rifles was, who posed for this print (or indeed if there is any way to find out all these years later) and indeed whether he survived the first and later second Boer War & whether he thenm survivied the first and 2nd world wars?

What are the odds eh?

We seemed to have a LOT of wars in that whole 50 year period 1895's - 1945.

I bet we lost a heck of a LOT of good Aussie blokes...over that half century if the true numbers were known. What might this country have been like now, if they hadn't paid the ultimate price?.

I hope the Museum do display it....

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

I feel like ol Ted Bullpit - "someone should kill all bloody kids!".

"Someone should blow nuns up." ... wonder why it's never re-run on tv?

I think we (globally) have just had a lot of wars, fullstop. And yet ... trumped by nature ... (1918 flu pandemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) (and some people don't now want to vacinate)

The 1918 flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920)^[1] was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic, the first of the two pandemics involving H1N1 influenza virus (the second being the 2009 flu pandemic). It infected 500 million^[2] people across the world, including remote Pacific islands and the Arctic, and killed 50 to 100 million of them—3 to 5 percent of the world's population^[3] at the time—making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history

wonder why it's never re-run on tv?

Yeah it was a tad politically incorrect wasn't it. I always got a chuckle out of him claiming Neville the concrete aboriginal statue in his garden, as a dependent child on his tax return!

The doo gooder's and land rights for gay whales crowd, would be all over it like white on rice if it were shown on TV these days.

Who needs wars when natural disasters & pandemics can wipe out such a large proportion of the population.

Now we have to worry about unmanned drone strikes from the sky as well! (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing it's local idiot).

Originally Posted by pmcgee

"Someone should blow nuns up." ... wonder why it's never re-run on tv?

Probably because it wasn't funny. I really couldn't stand it back then and when I see clips now it makes me cringe how bad it was.

When you put it against some of the classics.....Fawlty Towers, Dad's Army, Morecambe and Wise and even Hoges, it is wanting terribly.