Question regarding salt tollerance of commercially important timbers...

**Shinken Kami** · 2nd February 2007, 04:59 AM

Hey forums!

This is probably a real odd ball question, and although I am new to the forums I would be grateful for any and all responses (that are helpful...) I joined the forums recently foremost because of my passion for woodwork, although I am an amateur at the beginning of my journey. I have been hanging around and reading since atleast the most excellent capers with the Clamp orders. If you are allergic to long, long posts, then turn back now. Otherwise, please be prepared for some unapologetic waffle…

I am a university student, completing honours in physics and mathematics with interests in environmental science, energy and engineering and have throughout my life been proactive in being both conservative and protective of the environment.

Getting closer to the crux of the matter… I have purchased approximately 300 acres of the most salt blasted and eroded countryside that I could procure with the remuneration of part time employ and scholarship (actually, it was the cheapest land in I could find, just east south east of Lake Grace in WA.) My short term goal is to use the land for research in order to complete PhDs in the environmental sciences and engineering, and from there use it to produce meaningful research, build a home, raise my family etc...

Combating salinity is a much underrated task in rural Australia (any part actually), though it is made none the less important because of it. I endeavour to combine / hone my newly acquired engineering skills and my passion for the environment into a meaningful study using this pocket of land, and eventually return it to a state of, if not native forest, then sustainable plantation - and a nice place to live (and enjoy some woodwork.) Who knows, 300 acres of somewhat heavily planted land may even help with this global warming problem (topical, and surely wishful thinking...) but to be sure, plantation projects are known to drastically drop water tables, and the transpiration / precipitation cycle can help in leaching salt further into the ground. This can only be good for the surrounding land - and with a little education, and perhaps some sound engineering - which I still hope to learn

- the problem of salinity might get a better look in. With $200+ million a year in lost productivity in WA's wheat belt alone, it is time I believe to put on the game face and become serious about reclaiming salt scalded land.

At the risk of sounding conceited after all this spiel regarding the reclaiming of some fairly savaged land and saving the earth from the big bad global warming hu-ha that everyone except those in control want to acknowledge, I want some help identifying important commercial timbers amongst salt tolerant species.

The reason for this is fair; I need to be able to fund this project. I have some initial sponsorship interests, particularly from a hydro engineering perspective. Half of the problem in dealing with this form of salinity is lowering the water table - and as water supply and treatment is a big issue at the moment, finding money isn’t hard so long as certain outcomes are addressed. However monetary gain is not the main consideration. Salt blight has many unfortunate side effects, amongst them the stripping of and/or making nutrient inaccessible to anything but sadistic plant species. To combat this, once leaching has become evident the plantation ecosystem must be broadened to include beneficial species such as nitrogen fixing plants, for instance acacia species, and broadened again for other considerations and so on. To make room for these, salt tolerant timbers will need to be removed as the need for them becomes reduced. This would otherwise be a total waste of resource, so commercial importance is important.

While I understand that trees take time to grow, I am undertaking this project with the outlook that it may well take the rest of my life and so self sufficiency becomes important. Then again it may come to naught. To be sure, the trees are only part of the entire picture, with bores and evaporation considerations, salt farming and leaching, huge reticulation and irrigation nightmares... the list goes on. But I love trees and I would also like to contribute something meaningful... My dream is to take this somewhat humble 300 acres and return it to land that is usable for at the very least renewable plantation and in doing so forging perhaps a new industry which can combat salinity anywhere.

So far I have been far to concerned with installing bores, evap tanks, windmills and irrigation to look into the commercial availability of many salt tolerant plants in Australia. However, I have come up with
* White spruce
* Sycamore maple
* Red oak, Black oak
* Willow
* Birch

As you may expect, most salt tolerant species I have researched are non-native. With the exception of hybridised and crossbred gum trees that some of my peers have pinned their hopes on, to my understanding there are few others that come close to having the same levels of tolerance to salt as these listed. Although there is some problem in finding these plants in numbers for viability, this is not unsurmountable given the resources I have at my disposal.

The question is then, what trees among those that exhibit high salt tolerance (listed above or otherwise) are of commercial value, and more significantly to those of the forum, species that appeal to our own endeavours? Please consider what they would be used for commercially – and advise if species are only of interest for chipping / pulp / resin etc – processes with I find to be discouraging at the least.

Enough for now I have to go to work in three hours. Thanks sincerely for your consideration, and for getting this far into my first post... My sincerest apologies for any trauma induced

Bryn.

**Harry72** · 2nd February 2007, 08:16 AM

AAAAAAAAAhhhhhhh me ears are bleedin!

Sounds like a good proposal, salinity is a major problem in this country.

What sort of climate and rain fall does this area have?
Is there any surface salt water?
Is the land claimed by salinity or is it part of the area's ecology ?

**echnidna** · 2nd February 2007, 09:12 AM

Mangrove
Tea Tree
Tamerisk. (otherwise known as Salt Cedar)
River Redgum

**Bleedin Thumb** · 2nd February 2007, 10:57 AM

Hi SK and welcome aboard. A couple of questions first.

1.Don't you think it would be best to use the correct nomenculture when describing plants seen as your a scientist. It makes life easier.

2. I don't understand your rational behind farming of commercially significant timbers because once the tree's become established ( a hard,long task ) and they act as evaporative pumps to lower the water table at what time have they served their purpose and can be removed.
I would have thought that they needed to stay and do their job.
3. I thought it would be important if you are rehabilitating the land to use endemic species. Are you planning to use the economic species as a starter crop, and evaprotive pump whilst you establish the original vegetation.

If this is the case my first thoughts would be that it will take too long and you would be best using plants such as Casuarina sp. as these can handle high salt loads and grow quickly.

They don't really have any economic significance...at present. Perhapes you could create your own market such as activated charcoal production- they produce great charcoal.

Any way It sounds like an exciting project, good luck and keep us all posted.

**SilentButDeadly** · 2nd February 2007, 11:58 AM

Bryn

There is a tonne of info for what you need to start with at http://www1.crcsalinity.com/

WA is the most advanced state with respect to plant based management of salinity and have huge experience in this regard.

In terms of furniture or structural grade timber then you do have a bit of a drama in that the WA wheatbelt landscape is typically too nutritionally poor to produce traditional timber products from traditional timber trees without significant inputs - which can be both expensive and environmentally unhelpful especially if done poorly. And that's before you even start talking about the tree's water requirements.

However, there are likely far more local fonts of knowledge to you and your problem than yours truly. Fear not however, as you are not starting something new and groundbreaking....this has been done before.

By the by, virtually all Willow (Salix spp.) http://www.weeds.crc.org.au/main/wom_willow_0704.html and Tamarix aphylla (also called Salt Oak and Athel Pine) www.weeds.crc.org.au/main/wom_athel_pine.html are declared Weeds Of National Significance and it is typically illegal to sell or propogate these species throughout Australia.

**dadpad** · 2nd February 2007, 08:58 PM

Commonly-grown commercial eucalypts are
not suited to saline conditions and areas with
less than 600 millimetres annual rainfall,
where most dryland salinity is found.
The potential economic return from
growing trees on saline land will be improved
if suitable salt-tolerant and fast-growing
genotypes of commercial species can be
identified and used.
During the past 10 years, CSIRO Forestry
and Forest Products has evaluated a range of
tree species for survival, growth and water use
on saline sites in southern and central-western
New South Wales (see Table 1 which is partly
based on results from the trials).

Severe (8–16 dS/m)
E. campaspe E. aggregata
E. occidentalis E. camaldulensis
E. sargentii E. camphora
E. spathulata E. ovata
E. robusta E. tereticornis

http://www.ffp.csiro.au/pff/famarcar.pdf

Thats the best I can do in the short term but I'll have a look around and post further if I find anything worthwhile
PM for you as well

**dadpad** · 2nd February 2007, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by SilentButDeadly

By the by, virtually all Willow (Salix spp.) http://www.weeds.crc.org.au/main/wom_willow_0704.html and Tamarix aphylla (also called Salt Oak and Athel Pine) www.weeds.crc.org.au/main/wom_athel_pine.html are declared Weeds Of National Significance and it is typically illegal to sell or propogate these species throughout Australia.

I dont think Bat willow (Cricketus tonkerii ?) is declared. There are plantations up along the Murray somewhere (Mildura?) Not sure about that though so dont quote me.

Willow is the plant equivalent of rabbit.

**Bleedin Thumb** · 2nd February 2007, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by dadpad

I dont think Bat willow (Cricketus tonkerii ?) is declared. There are plantations up along the Murray somewhere (Mildura?) Not sure about that though so dont quote me.

Willow is the plant equivalent of rabbit.

Ive never heard of that one is it Australian? I only know the English Bat willow - Cricketus horribellus, very overrated.

**Shinken Kami** · 3rd February 2007, 12:25 PM

Thanks for the interest everyone. Your replys have been great.

It would be fantastic to have a stand of Marri, Karri and Jarrah but I cant see that happening short term. But it looks like mallee oils from certain eucalypts or brushwood from melaleuca's for a while at least.

Still lots to do, and its the weekend so Im going to the property to check the bores etc.
Back early next week.

**dadpad** · 3rd February 2007, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Shinken Kami

Thanks for the interest everyone. Your replys have been great.

It would be fantastic to have a stand of Marri, Karri and Jarrah but I cant see that happening short term. But it looks like mallee oils from certain eucalypts or brushwood from melaleuca's for a while at least.

Still lots to do, and its the weekend so Im going to the property to check the bores etc.
Back early next week.

check out this mob
www.co2australia.com.au

The basic concept is they will plant the trees for free but they own the carbon credits.

co2australia have links with
http://www.oilmallee.com.au/

I have met with people from co2 and they seem to know what they are doing.

**PAH1** · 5th February 2007, 01:19 PM

Look up a group called "men of the trees" the most active group in Aus in found in WA and they have a long list of projects that are similar to the one that you are talking about along with a good list of native trees, their salt tolerance and their rainfall requirements. There is a great deal that can be done and using the timber is actually a good idea as the water use of young trees is greater than that of old trees, yes I know that is counter intuitive but an actively growing tree is exchanging water for CO2 while an older tree is maintaining its size and is not exchanging as much water.

**Bleedin Thumb** · 5th February 2007, 10:29 PM

PAH1 that sounds strange - I would have thought the amount of water used by a tree is directly proportional to the amount of foliage it has because water loss is due to transpiration and lesser extent evaporation.
Are you saying that a mature tree can reduce its rate of transpiration by a means other than the physiological features it would have in common with younger trees of the same species.
Sorry that sound's long winded I hope you get what I'm asking

**PAH1** · 6th February 2007, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb

PAH1 that sounds strange - I would have thought the amount of water used by a tree is directly proportional to the amount of foliage it has because water loss is due to transpiration and lesser extent evaporation.
Are you saying that a mature tree can reduce its rate of transpiration by a means other than the physiological features it would have in common with younger trees of the same species.
Sorry that sound's long winded I hope you get what I'm asking

Yes and no, the rate is controlled by the opening of the stomata. In young trees that are actively growing at maximal rate the stomata are open to the maximum for the given availability of water. As the tree matures it maintains what it has rather than grows at maximal rate and so the relative water use drops. It is one reason why a forestry lobby group made some interesting comments after the canberra fires and how the murrumbidgee would reduce its flow because the forest would be using a lot more water.Eucalypts are also an oddity because they can reduce their canopy size and regrow it in response to water availability without increasing the size of the tree. The only other plant that I know can manage that is welwitchia and that is seriously oddball.

**Bleedin Thumb** · 6th February 2007, 09:37 AM

Thanks PAH1, I can half grasp what your saying but I still have trouble seeing how a mature Euc with a huge canopy even with its stomata fairly well closed would loose less than a small sapling, but I guess its all a mater of relative size of the trees and I can except that somewhere there will be a cross over and transpiration rates start to drop.

Thanks for the information.

**soundman** · 6th February 2007, 12:50 PM

It occurs to me that you wont achieve the transition from " salt degraded hell on earth" to "idilic sustainable timber covered wonderland" in one simple step.

You will be looking at a long road starting much differently than you plan to end up.
Initialy you will need to look at salt resistant pioneer spicies and soil improvement methods and moove on to the heavier plants and trees.

there are heaps of people out there doing this sort of thing. There are probaly more usefull forums to you than us......... at least untill you have some wood to butcher.

power to ya.

cheers

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