Thread: An amazing Japanese joint

How about a 'cogged, mitred & bridled' joint?

One day, I will find an old guy like that and ply him with enough saké to make him show me how the heck to do that stuff.

Either that, or show him a cast iron plane.

>'cogged, mitred & bridled' joint?

Yeah . . . that'd do too

>how the heck to do that stuff.

Was the cast iron plane a threat of torture? I suspect it'd involve a twenty year apprenticeship, but hey, mate, make the most of it while you're there. Got yourself a samurai sword spokeshave yet?

While I'm at it, does anyone know where to source in Oz the paper that the Japanese use for screens, lanterns etc?

-Cheers

Originally Posted by zenwood

>'cogged, mitred & bridled' joint?

While I'm at it, does anyone know where to source in Oz the paper that the Japanese use for screens, lanterns etc?

-Cheers

I was always under the impresisont hat it was just rice paper. Probably a large art supplies dealer would have it or be able to get it.

http://www.auscraftnet.com.au/direct...cat_name=Paper

The really patterned stuff is mulberry paper, otherwise it's rice paper. No idea where to get either.

Mick

No, the cast iron plane might have been a bribe. Last guy here who plays with wood who saw my LV LA block just about wet his pants he was so excited. Nothing even close to them exists around here, which on the one hand is ok, as the woodies are very good and cheap, but on the other hand the woodies can't do everything an iron plane can.

If you get really stuck, I reckon it might be possible to dig up a roll of paper and fire it off.

For the sword spokeshave. Working on it. Seriously.:eek:

Friend of a wife of a friend of a cousin of a whatever is a swordsmith. My mate was given a sword as a gift, but had to give it back because his wife's family said the taxes would be too high to keep it. He's trying to wangle some steel/blades for me, but I don't know if anything will happen or not. Be nice if it did though.

I also know another fella who had an old sword re-made into some plane and knife blades, and uses them. Says they are nice, but not really any better than a new top end plane might be.

My wife (who is japanese) told me how they used those joints to make all of the old temples. Those old buildings are held together with wedges an no metal at all. No nails or screws at all.

Stevo

Depends on how old is old.

They did use some metal, but as it's so scarce in the wild here it was reserved for only the upper echelons of society. Some of the very old temples (most have burned down) may still be standing without metal in them anywhere, but their numbers would be very low. Anything you see standing these days will have some metal in it, more if it was an important building of some kind. Of course the really old stuff, no metal. But guys of the calibre who built those kinda places (and regular houses) are very thin on the ground now.

However, yes most of the stuff is held together with wedges in tenons. Most often exposed wedges, and from the smallest to the largest tenons you can think of. Even tree-trunks have tenons cut on their ends and slotted into another tree trunk. New houses built in the more traditional style still use plenty of M&T and occasionally dovetails.

I did take note of most of this (with pics) when my folks were here and we did the touristy thing.

Wierdest place I saw a dovetail was to extend a bottom plate of a simple fence. Kinda dovetailed half-lap thing that the weather had really gotten to. No reason to DT it, but it had been done.

No swinging doors in the old places. Only swinging doors I did see were at the castle in Kyoto. Huge doors, steel clad both sides. Most other doors in the place are sliding doors. Same place has what they call ' nightingale floors' that squeak when you walk on them. No matter how quietly or slowly you walk, they squeak. As the no.1 fellow in the country called it home, I guess it was a good idea to make it difficult to move around un-noticed. The floorboard are held down with a kind of cleat which is then nailed to the floor beams. All steel again.

Even the Imperial palace doesn't have very much steel in it, and it is less than 200 years old.

I kinda figure it as being that a family wealth was measured by how much metal they had in their house, and how many stacks of tile cappings they had. Higher the stack the more important/rich. As you might guess, the highest stacks are often found on the important temples, at least 20-30 rows, where a normal house has only 3-5 or so.

I need to get out of here...

*LOL*
*G* Schtoo very nice to read you post even if you do have to get out of here.

My friend Minoru spent his University years in a timber shop doing it all to pay his way through. Today he is obsessed with detail and hates to use any metal in anything he makes. So lots of Mortise and Tenon joints held by wedges etc. He even hand planes everything down to true.

Stevo

I've been to some amazing Japanese joints, but you don't want to read about them here...& would censor it anyway

Schtoo: nice post. I think I read on that same website that temple carpenters were a separate branch from all the other mere house-building carpenters. Maybe they need to achieve a zen-like satori state before they could make all those joints.

Then again, maybe the joint helped them achieve satori, as joints do, I'm led to understand.

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Depends on how old is old.

[...]
temples, at least 20-30 rows, where a normal house has only 3-5 or so.

I need to get out of here...

I thought this was fairly amazing...

Alex, do you know where that is from? It looks very familar, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

If the CD of pics arrives sometime soon, I will prolly have another angle of it...

Zen, I don't know if mental state was as important as another factor. Houses are largely made from softwoods like pine, hemlock and cypress. Temples also include Keyaki, a distant cousin to elm. Also immune to Dutch elm disease, so there is enough around to play with. Beautiful orange wood, nice open grain, quite hard but easy enough to work with. I like it, except it costs an arm and a leg.

Pretty funny really. Ask most people what religeon they are and they claim no religeon. But most go to temples and shrines at least once a year, heaps of said structures around, etc, etc.

Still get Jehova's witnesses running around here though.

Originally Posted by zenwood

...does anyone know where to source in Oz the paper that the Japanese use for screens, lanterns etc?

The collective Japanese name for these screens is Shoji. I couldn't find anyone in Oz, not that I'm greatly surprised, but there are several places I know of in the US that do. They would probably easier to deal with for us non-Japanese speakers than going directly to Japan.

Here are a couple I found:

http://www.shoji-shop.com/

http://www.misugidesigns.com/

I would not be deterred because you can't get it here in Oz (though I would be happy to be contradicted) as getting this will be easy from the US. The weight will be negligible and you will have it seven days after ordering by USPS.

Hi guys, it was great to see the small video. I have been collecting and using Japanese tools for about 20yr now. I first bought Toshiros book and then a few others about 6 in all. Once i started to use Japanese chisels i couldn't beleive how long this secret had been hidden.
A few yrs ago i was lucky enough to see a 20 minute video put on by the woodworkers group in Melb. The person showing the Video was a lecturer from RMIT some may have seen it. He had grown up in Japan and had a solid grounding in Japanese architecture. I was originally a wooden boatbuilder and like anyone used all the tools. But when you see the skill level some of the Japanese craftsman have its quite humbling. I have done a few complex joints and sure they come out ok but these guys do them staight off the saw no mucking around....jobs done. I get a kick out of doing just one joint (and half a day) they do a whole assembly. Anyway i thought the site was just fantastic.
Sinjin