Thread: bamboo (or hinoki?) pegs

I'm quite late to the discussion, but if I understand what you're looking for, maybe bamboo barbecue skewers from the kitchen aisle of the grocery store? I've used them on the suggestion of a guy named Jerry Work, and they're quite nice. I've never barbecued them before using them though.

Eli, many people in the US use chopsticks for pegging, not sure what wood they're made of though.

Pam

Des, can you define "hurt" (groaner, offensive, malodorous, poor taste, over or under done)? Don't worry - I can take it.

I checked the blog you mentioned. Busy fellow!. Good photo as you say. Add enough sake and you could get hammered and nailed at the same time... I know, I know - gotta stop that.

Anyway, I've blasted off a couple of emails to sites that use bamboo (fishing rod, baskets, etc.) to see if those craftspeople are familiar with the process of making takekugi. May or may not get an answer, but if I do, I'll let us all know.

Steve

Hi Yojimbo, I'd be emailing our local Austrailan Japanese expert Soatoz, you might have to go through his website www.japan-tools.com I'm sure he would have some advice.

Another thought to the heating in sand thing, they may pick up silica from the sand which may make them harder.

Hi, Pam, Des, Steve (my old pal), and Eli:

Thanks for all the helpful discussion and links.

In relative order to your posts (and I apologize in advance for the bulletin quality of my replies -- am still getting used to the tools here):

Pam -- great point about sand in the arena. And I didn't know about the inlay aspect, as I've never been called on to do that kind of work.

The non-disposable kind of chopsticks (tend to be Chinese rather than Japanese) that are not the more refined and lacquered kind would seem to be bamboo: if you look at the business end of one, you can see the cell structure.

Steve -- thanks for the tech detail about scrolling down...... But it seems it takes me to the top of the thread, whereas I want to see last few posts -- am I missing something?

Bamboo grows wild where I live (an invasive import from about a hundred and fifty years ago by some world traveler who thought it was "pretty" -- which it is, and I love it, but it has to be watched or it'll encroach and kill all the native plants). It splits and shrinks dramatically as it dries. Which last is the full extent of my observation/knowledge on that subject.

Des -- Thanks for the blog link. Took several translations to get a semi-coherent one (WordLingo, then Nifty, finally Google Trans.), but it was well worth the trouble. Thanks so much for that.

Eli -- I have used bamboo skewers when I couldn't get any dried local bamboo (only on my own pieces: wouldn't have tried it on client work); they're not bad, but there's nothing to do if the diameter is too small. And to be honest, it feels in opposition to my purist, Luddite soul. I desperately want to learn the traditional way of doing it. Obsessive? Ya think?

Great input all 'round. And much appreciated by this neophyte to the Forum.

Mata,
Yojimbo

Claw Hama -- so, so sorry to have missed your post before I replied to the others. Thanks so much for the effort! Looking forward to any info all of you turn up. And as more comes to me from my sources, I'll certainly share it.

You all leave me awestruck.

Thanks,
Yo

Can I call you Claw? Or would that be impudent of me?

Thanks for contacting So -- I've had dealings with him in the past (not on this forum), and find him an unfailingly rich source of information. I'm still hiding behind my handle here, and so didn't contact him directly... but I'll be straight with him and the rest of you next time (inborn paranoia and innate shyness -- grievous burdens to schlepp through life!)

Thanks,
Yo

Originally Posted by Sheets

Des, can you define "hurt" (groaner, offensive, malodorous, poor taste, over or under done)? Don't worry - I can take it.

Sorry Steve, it was my own poor attempt to have a go at a bit of a pun myself (bamboo stakes and fingernails).

Last time, I promise.

Des

Des,

I see. You are a pundit. Now that I have put my finger on it, it hurts too.

Steve

p.s.,

So as not to make this post totally baseless (and now that the puns are out of the way), one of the places I emailed reference takekugi was here:
http://www.mcflyfishing.com/
Since they are craftspeople working with bamboo, I thought they may have the knowledge we seek or at least a direction to in which to cast our questions (we need a smiley for bad habit, eh?)
I received a reply that they would make further enquiries, so hopefully we can net some info (bhs).

Steve

Received a first installment of info from Hiroshi Kono of MC Fly Fishing. He found two web pages (all in Japanese). The first (a family in Hyogo Pref. still working in the production of takekugi): http://nenrin.org/036tayori/post_74.php

and the other (which mentions a video interview with Ishizuka-san - marked 14V-15):
http://www.city.kakogawa.hyogo.jp/in...31,70,359,html

I haven't had time to really dig into either yet, but now some of you can if you want.

Steve

A little bit more info.
Old kiri-bako used to be made with bamboo nails as well as tansu, etc. I know there is still a thriving industry in Japan making kiri-bako, so I thought I'd try that angle (search out the box makers and see if they still use takekugi). Well, since I don't live in Japan and read Japanese, I asked my friend in Tokyo if he could ask about kiri-bako. It seems that the box makers don't use takekugi anymore, but they are used by temple builders to attach wooden shingles:
http://www1.town.bandai.fukushima.jp...oration_14.htm
For those who can't read Japanese (like me) my friend offered the following translation:

Takekugi

In the case of a roof exposed to direct wind and rain,the iron nail which was easy to be rusted was unsuitable.
Because,Takekugi has been used by not only thatching a roof by cedar but also all of thatching since ancient times.
When they considered a supply and the production process,
bamboo nails were overwhelmingly more imminent, and they seem to have been easy.

The bamboo nail is generally made with a procedure such as follows.

1. At first, I cut rudely performance of bamboo from 75cm to 90cm with a circular saw.

2. And then, I divide it in two, on this occasion I make gnarl the edge.
Then, I make it piece of wood from there to division into 4, division into 8 and around 1.5 cm. Because I use only outside hard part as a nail,
this time I separate the internal fleshy substance part from the main body with kitchen knife.

3. After I make it the sun airing for a while,
I divide it by a knife more finely, on this occasion I make gnarl the edge.
Then It will be like the tooth of the comb, I have a a connected one,
I sharpen them while twisting a tooth little by little.
Then it is finished in the form of a nail chamfered of.

4. The cutting is mechanized by the present.
Originally, I sharpen nail ahead with the exclusive limit level.
I cut off another one end in a right angle, and one of them is completed.

Above is the molding process of the nail,
I make it the sun airing again and I parch it with a cauldron to keep strength in it.
By doing so it, oils and fats and acetic acid, methanol called Chiku-reki included in bamboo melt and leave.
And it is finished in reddish yellow with the luster,it becomes the nail full of water resistance and flexibility.

Maybe someone else can refine the description. But it does mention the heating and the reason why.

Anyway, keep digging and see what gets unearthed.

Steve

Steve, et al:

Found another term for takekugi -- used with swords:
mekugi. Under that search term, have located following link:

http://www.shadowofleaves.com/mekugi_rods.htm

-- which has oddly underdeveloped images, but otherwise is helpful. Suggests soaking pegs in tea; says tannin will cure.

Seem to have lost full sentence capability... worried.

Later guys; going to look for pronouns.

Yo

Yojimbo,

Now there you go again... drop another term and get everybody worked up. Well maybe not everybody. Well maybe nobody. But thanks for the info. Might fits somebody's requirement.

Mekugi function to hold the sword blade in the handle (tsuka). They have a slight taper to them so they will wedge in the hole (ana), but also must be removable so the tsuka can be removed. While they must absorb some shock, as the article states, the primary function is to prevent the blade from separating from the handle when the sword is swung. The majority of forces are absorbed by the tsuka itself.
From what I understand, the location of the ana in the tang (nakago) is to minimize forces at that spot, thus saving the mekugi from excessive stress that could cause it to crack or break (at worse) or loosen and fall out (at best, although, the right hand gripping the tsuka is such that the mekugi is held in place, even if loose). Periodically, the mekugi need to be replaced by new ones, because repeated removal and insertion will deform the the shape and prevent a tight fit.
So I think the major differences from takekugi is that they don't need a sharp(er) point, need to be easily removable vice more or less permanent, don't need to counteract or compensate for changes in humidity and I think, are thicker in diameter than would suit a takekugi of similar length. But with some modifications, would probably suit the role of takekugi in some instances. Depending on the cost, a bag of them, as shown on the Shadow of Leaves web site, might be cost effective for takekugi. I can't see ever needing that many as mekugi (unless you run an iai dojo or something like that).

Steve

p.s., Have found some pronouns for you Yo: (I, you, it, he, him, she, her, us, them). Will keep looking also. New thread?