Build Thread

[NeilS]

.... I don't know about you, but I love a shiny and sharp tool.

Yes, Steve, sharp and shiny or sharp and misty-haze does it for me.

Looks like a natural edge waterstone you are using there. Any chance of a closer look at it and some info about it?

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[Sheets]

Neil said,

"Looks like a natural edge waterstone you are using there. Any chance of a closer look at it and some info about it?"

Sure. A diversion. If diamonds are a girl's best friend, I'm sure for some of us, toishi are a man's best friend (a man and his stones after all).

This is not new to you Neil. If you remember the discussion I started back in the fall of 2007, about non-Japanese natural stones?

One thing about rock, it sure takes a while to wear out (and at this rate, I'll never use it all up). And it is a disease - I keep getting more than I'll ever use

So for those who may be interested and missed the prior discussion, this slate stone is from right here in Nova Scotia. It cost nothing because its just laying around all over the place (usually crushed and used as drainage or topping/base for roads). Problem of course, is the stone as found doesn't have nice flat faces or always a suitable size, so some amount of labour is needed to make it work as a whetstone. Another problem too, is that there are a ton of variations within the local slate, from hardness and composition, including pyrite (fool's gold) and grit size which makes finding the suitable stuff more difficult. Even the pieces that I've found which work, usually contain little teeny bits of pyrite which I have to watch for and dig out. Because of the contaminants, it would never be profitable for someone to market this type of stone commercially. And it does not compare at all to natural Japanese stone in fineness, purity and cutting strength. I'd put the grit size finer than aoto/iyoto (middle stones), but much less than awase-do. If I had to guess, I'd say 8-10k. Good enough to produce an edge that cuts well (say for a marking knife and maybe a scrub plane), but not even close for fine finish work like chisels and shiage kanna.

I use a sliver of the same type of rock as a nagura stone. This stone is fairly hard and doesn't build a slurry very quickly.

One thing about sunlight on steel - it can make even crappy steel look wonderful (not that my kanna has crappy steel - I just used one for the pics I took this morning. Much warmer today btw).

[yojimbo]

"I've got more links than a 100 fathom anchor cable (so long as I use Google)"


Thanks, Steve. On my ever-increasing, increasingly impossible wish list. Need work!

[NeilS]

Thanks Steve for the diversion.

I'm impressed with your Nova Scotian waterstone. Nice idea to use your local stone.

You have inspired me to investigate again our local slate the next time I am cutting it. The last time I tested some pieces they were all too hard, but as you say there is considerable variation and maybe I didn't try enough pieces to find one soft enough to do the job. My slate is all from the same quarry, so might also try some from another to see if it is any softer.

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[Sheets]

I find a fair amount of usable stone (not too hard or full of contaminants) and slate seems to cleave naturally leaving a flatish surface. But the quarried stone is processed (crushed) before use into different sizes. A lot of the pieces of good quality are too small (being basically gravel) and the jump in size to something larger (as pictured) seems to omit the flatish surface leaving a lot of work to make one (not to mention the problem of getting it home). I've tied splitting some, but the fracture wasn't very flat.
Anyway, I'll never really wear out the one I have, so not much (beyond the disease) to merit having more.

I could buy some flat slate from the stone vendors, but then that would cost money

I do have "real" Japanese awase-do as well (which I did have to spend money for), but I can't seem to resist trying my local stuff.

[Gadge]

NeilS,

I live in Sydney and have found suitable stone in the old gold mining areas behind the Blue Mountains. I was in Adelaide late last year and was looking at all the shale and siltstone with interest. I was only there a few days so couldn't explore. Going up to the Adelaide Hills, those cuttings have a lot of stone which looks good from the road. I'm sure it's worth a look.

I carry a course diamond stone with me and flatten off a piece to test, if I'm in the field. I usually test using an old Nomi as the jigane quickly shows up a black streak if the stone is working well.

Garry

[NeilS]

.... the jump in size to something larger (as pictured) seems to omit the flatish surface leaving a lot of work to make one (not to mention the problem of getting it home). I've tied splitting some, but the fracture wasn't very flat.

Having a large rock cutting saw, getting a flatish face is no prob for me. But, having cut the face, there is still some hand work to remove the cutting lines and to get it dead flat. Pity we are so far apart, Steve. With your stone and my diamond saw we could turn out a nice lot of stones....

NeilS,

I live in Sydney and have found suitable stone in the old gold mining areas behind the Blue Mountains. I was in Adelaide late last year and was looking at all the shale and siltstone with interest. I was only there a few days so couldn't explore. Going up to the Adelaide Hills, those cuttings have a lot of stone which looks good from the road. I'm sure it's worth a look.

I carry a course diamond stone with me and flatten off a piece to test, if I'm in the field. I usually test using an old Nomi as the jigane quickly shows up a black streak if the stone is working well.

Garry

Garry, some good thoughts there.

I'm sure the Glen Osmond slate at the bottom of the hill that you can see in the cuttings at the bottom of the freeway (which, BTW, were used in all those old bluestone buildings in Adelaide) is worth investigating. There is always another chunk of it falling from the cutting. Will just have to fake a breakdown at a strategic spot there some time....

BTW, welcome to the forum.

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[Sheets]

While were on the subject of stones (again, apologies if this is old info), I have some stuff from Stonehaven, New Brunswick (guess where the name came from?).

Here's a blurb to read about it (attachment). Its not just specific to the quarry at Stonehaven. If you don't want to read the whole article, here's a quote:

"But the stones from Stonehaven, I can say without bragging, were probably the best grade in the world for grinding a tempered-edge tool. That is why the Stonehaven quarry was able to survive longer than any of the others", Herbert William Read (Read Stone Company)

Obviously, Mr. Read had not been to Japan, but probably wouldn't have wanted to brag up a possible competitor if he had.

Steve

p.s., There are a lot of other places mentioned in the article that I must visit someday. Also, the stone from Stonehaven is a medium grit (despite it being called "grind stone") but leaves an edge almost good enough to use. When I was at Stonehaven, it was not a protected site (still isn't I don't think) so it was OK to pick stuff up on the shoreline (lots and lots of cut and dressed pieces of varying size. Probably abandoned because of breakage).

[NeilS]

Very interesting article, Steve. Just love reading about those early craft industries.

What a note to finish on, the last scythe stones went to Leonard Lee the sharpening guru.

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[yojimbo]

Since we were talking about saws (lo, these many comments ago), I'm gonna pop a quick question in here -- I have some burls that need cutting. And I have no idea what to use that won't be immediately dulled by them. Anyone got any suggestions? How would you guys do it?

Thanks,
Becky

[Sheets]

Since we were talking about saws (lo, these many comments ago), I'm gonna pop a quick question in here -- I have some burls that need cutting. And I have no idea what to use that won't be immediately dulled by them. Anyone got any suggestions? How would you guys do it?

Thanks,
Becky

Hi Becky,

What type of wood are they? I've never cut any burls myself, so hopefully somebody else can be more helpful.

[Sheets]

Neil said,

"What a note to finish on, the last scythe stones went to Leonard Lee the sharpening guru."

I bought two of them (even though I don't own a scythe) just because of the short blurb in the catalog when they went on sale. That's also when I decided to detour to visit Stonehaven on a trip to New Brunswick (1987-88?).

[yojimbo]

Hi, Steve, and all -- the burls at the moment are almost all Wild Cherry (don't know if it's got another name elsewhere -- but they grow very dense and sometimes huge burls. It's certainly a type of cherry wood, but I only know them by their local name.

And often, a local tree trimmer gathered some for me, so I'm not even sure if they're all Cherry.

Helpful, eh?

Thanks,
Becky

[Sheets]

I'd suggest (lacking any more expert and useful direction), taking a burl that you consider to be somewhat expendable, and trying to cut it and see how it goes.

If that's a scary idea, perhaps you can pose the question in one of the other forum categories (maybe woodwork - general) - there are surely some members who can tell you how its done correctly.

[Sheets]

An extension to the diversion (stone stuff).

Here are pics of the Stonehaven stones I have. The scythe stones (I found them in the garage - boy do they smell musty) and the large piece with a smaller chunk I use as a nagura. The kanna is 65 mm for comparison. The big rock is 32 mm thick and the shape is as found (perfectly flat on both sides). The last pic, I wet the surface so you can see the grain.