Thread: How often do you see a delaminating J chisel?

Originally Posted by silentC

And here are a couple of direct arguments, fully quoted so you know who I'm talking to. But don't let that stop anyone else from tearing them to shreds.

Far from pulling them to bits, I happen to agree with you.

Personally I think there are too many what I call " tool snobs" around who are more concerned with name, appearance and price of a tool than value for money.

Value for money takes into account the times the tool is used as well as the cost, appearance etc. For instance my $ 3.00 block plane from Bunnings is still the one I use the most. That's value for money.


Peter.

Hi all.

I see my statement has created a bit of topic of conversation What an honour.

First off I have to beg pardon, and explain myself again, that the stated opinion is definitely NOT A FACT but merely my personaly opinion. I can't emphasize that enough.

As SilentC has stated "it is all in your mind and you could probably make something as nice with ugly tools like so many of us have to."

I might add that mind is part of yourself, and taking that into account is not a bad idea. And I think considering the price you pay for minorly defective Iyoroi chisels they have beauty of their own in that sense, and I must admit I was immature to not to appreciate that. Cindy's birthmark.... What an delightful way to express the fukure in a chisel.

There is a saying in Japan "Koubou does not choose his brush". Koubou is one of the three best calligraphers in Japanese history. I totally agree with this saying.

But I would like to say, "with ugly tools like so many of us have to" is not always so. Well it depends on the defenition of "less expensive" but, if I can say $320 for a set of 10 in a nice kiri box is less expensive, I think you can get a set of "beautiful" chisels for that much. No delamination, no defects. That's how much Groggy paid for his set of ten (ain't that right mate?), which he has kindly posted the photos on another thread.

Also, I consider $120 set of 6 Stanley chisels sold in Bunnings beautiful too. I used to use it myself (you don't believe that do you), and I enjoyed it's form. So it's a matter of defenition of "beauty" I didn't explain enough.

Sense of beauty is defined by oneself. If Van Gogh thinks his paintings are beautiful, then it is beautiful, no matter how long those paintings don't sell (while he's alive), and someday people will notice.

I stated my opinion carelessly that it made an impression that I have a different opinion from lingnator and SilentC, but that is not true. I am with you guys, and I really liked the Cindy Crawford metaphor (really a good one mate). My defenition of "precision" include that "imperfection" if you know what I mean. Humans can consider that imperfection as PERFECTION, and include that into beauty, I was refering to that when I said humans are more precise. So, again it was a matter of expression and there is nothing different between what lignator is saying from my opinion. Cindy has said it all for us.

I have more expensive tools listed on my web site, but believe me I sell lots of less expensive tools as well. It's just that more expensive tools attracts attention, so I have them up And like Wille said, yes I do recommend $300 plane over $3000 (at least to most of the people including myself), but not $25 plane

I never believe that just by being rich (ie. able to buy expensive equipments, not just tools but anything) makes one great, BUT great things will definitely aid you to become better. That's why they are "great things", and great things not necessarily have to be expensive either.

So you all, whenever you are in need of beautiful expensive or less expensive J tools, you now know where to go

Hahaha~~~~~~~~~

Lastly, I watched that gun making film Schtoo.... Amazing.
You have to hijac once in a while, mate

See y'all

I see my statement has created a bit of topic of conversation

For me, this is what it's all about. We all have our opinions and we find out how well formed they are when we debate the opposing view. I have already learned something in just half an hour.

I would like to say, "with ugly tools like so many of us have to" is not always so.

My point here is that most of us are limited to choosing tools that serve the purpose. Only the lucky ones can choose the ones that look good too.

I think there are too many what I call " tool snobs" around who are more concerned with name, appearance and price of a tool

Should I confess my Lee Valley LA block plane has rust on it? It rapidly went from "show pony" to "user"...

my $ 3.00 block plane from Bunnings is still the one I use the most

Heathen!!

Hi Schtoo,
Thanks for the link to the Holland and Holland video. Amazing craftsmanship indeed. I'm afraid to ask how much they cost. But I'm sure they are worth it.
BTW, have you seen this video on J blacksmiths? No where near as nice as the H&H production, and spoken only in Japanese.
http://www.sanjo-kogyokai.or.jp/section00_e.htm

This thread has some great links, I suggest others follow them too, great stuff!

Hi Soatoz,

Thanks for your advice on my fukure. The vendor that sold me the chisel has agreed to credit my account and told me to keep the chisel, so I am very satisfied with the deal.

I have your site bookmarked, and check it almost daily. My birthday is coming up soon, so I must start preparing SWMBO for the sticker shock of a few Tasai chisels. The Michi Tasai dovetail nomi’s look like they would make a fine addition to my J tool arsenal.

One more question – I noticed your site and other J tool sites have been selling old unused stock from the 90’s and even 80’s. Where is all this old stock coming from? Why wasn’t it sold until now?

Thanks!

Thanks SilentC, for letting it pass due to my obviously delicate mood.


Thanks for the Holland and Holland link Schtoo. I laarvve their stuff. (BTW lignator, I think you are looking at a starting price of 40,000 USD a pair. Not sure if I'm outdated here but it's in the ball park.)

As an aside, I first heard the word "truculent" when Muhammed Ali was accused of being so, by (reporter) Howard Cossel.
he replied "Whatever truculent means, if it's good then I'm it"

I've seen the Holland and Holland video before and I have to say that, though I'm not a fan of guns, if I had a lazy 40grand I'd buy a bespoke Holland and Holland tomorrow. To me they are the epitome of form and function. Almost spiritual. The same reason I bought my set of J chisels form Soatoz. Thanks for all the links here.

[quote=willie;507976]Thanks for letting it pass due to my obvious delicate mood.

Originally Posted by silentC

Thanks for the Holland and Holland link Schtoo. I laarvve their stuff.

As an aside, I first heard the word "truculent" when Muhammed Ali was accused of being so, by (reporter) Howard Cossel.
he replied "Whatever truculent means, if it's good then I'm it"

I've never lent my truck to anyone.

Here is a different perspective worded better than I could manage:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...7&postcount=13

Originally Posted by lignator

Hi Soatoz,

Thanks for your advice on my fukure. The vendor that sold me the chisel has agreed to credit my account and told me to keep the chisel, so I am very satisfied with the deal.

I told you you are lucky! I guess I don't have to mention this, but be careful not to hit too hard when the delaminated part comes close to the edge. The edge might fall off all of a sudden and damage your work.

I have your site bookmarked, and check it almost daily.

If this was in my "customers feedback" section it'll sound made up enough right? But check this out, one of my best friend wrote me the other day "I check your web site at least ten times a day!" hahaha, now THAT sounds fake.

My birthday is coming up soon, so I must start preparing SWMBO for the sticker shock of a few Tasai chisels. The Michi Tasai dovetail nomi’s look like they would make a fine addition to my J tool arsenal.

You bet! Michio's work is incredibly fine. I have asked couple of blacksmiths including very famous Hidari Hisasaku from Tokyo, but so far Michio is the only person who can comply with that design. Kunikei is now working on it, but he asked me so many times how it is designed.

One more question – I noticed your site and other J tool sites have been selling old unused stock from the 90’s and even 80’s. Where is all this old stock coming from? Why wasn’t it sold until now?

Because they are from old tool shops from the country side, where not many customers visit. And when the shop goes out of business these tools are sold for very reduced price. Or a stock that's piled up in the backroom by the grandfather of the shop master and when the shop master cleans the back room he finds old tools covered with dust.And since most of these tools are dusty and old looking, you'd have to really know what's gem and what's stone. Have you read my Masanari chisels link? It's kind of like that.

I don't know about the other store, but this is the case with me.

Oh, speaking of Masanari, SilentC if you are keen on Japanees chiesls try Masanari! These are great although the price is reasobale enough (or isn't it? $80 for 36mm) It feels as though it's an alloy but definitely gets sharper and easier to sharpen. My friend who found this is saying it is likely to be White Steel #2, but I am betting it is White Steel #1. I'll find this out soon.

Sorry but at the moment even $80 is a lot for one chisel for me. The last chisel I bought was $5 at the local market. Titan. Not Japanese but a good Aussie brand

Originally Posted by silentC

Sorry but at the moment even $80 is a lot for one chisel for me. The last chisel I bought was $5 at the local market. Titan. Not Japanese but a good Aussie brand

5 bucks for a chisel!? Ma~~n how could that be possible... I guess you are... what's the word... serendipity? person.

BTW, did you see the Chiyozuru Korehide kiridashi knife on sale thread (hahaha, I wanna hear your coment on that one mate)? In it another member showed us a $5 (was it?) kiridashi knife, and it looked totally fine. Laminated stuff....

And the post by Derek, well, that's really what I'm talking about, when I say beauty! Derek you are THE MAN mate.

And again, that gun making film posted by Schtoo.... It's really amazing. I want one even though I don't know how to use it.