Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    Generally the white stones or green stones grind cooler. However a old fashioned grey stone will work just fine. Just do it slowly. Gently grind with a light touch maybe one or two strokes, keep your fingers as close to the tip of the back of the blade as you dare, that way you can feel it heat up and as soon as it feels even a little warmer then your flesh/blood, dunk in cool water (4 litres / 1 gallon is a good a amount) in a swirling motion until the blade is cold. Then start again.

    Since you have a large chip and de-lamintion to remove, grind the blade first square until you remove the chip and there is no longer any de-lamintion visible then grind your 30º bevel. Its fast and safer.

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Yorktown
    Age
    44
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Ok I will just take it easy while grinding, and will follow the 90deg grind and then add the bevel.
    Should the bevel initially added with the grinder?

    Also I noticed that the kanna that I am working on (the one with the bad blade) has bulges on each side of the dai. My other one (not going to use it until I know whats going on) has them as well but very very minor compared to the bad one.

    Is this something to be worried about, should I store the kanna inside or in the garage?

    I apologize for all the newbie questions.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    Yes form 97% of the bevel on the grinder (leaving say 0.5mm short of a full bevel grind) then use the water stone to finish & hone.

    I see the bulge in the photo. I have never experienced that myself. Is the bulge the same size with the blade out of the dai as when the blade is in the dai? If not then the blade could be the cause. However I doubt it because the dai would in all likelihood split from that much pressure.

    Does the blade project / seat fully in the throat? Or do you still need to adjust the dai to accept the blade?

    The workshop should be fine. Just tap the blade out of the dai at the end of the day so it is sitting loose in the dai when not in use. This will prevent stuck blades or a split dai.

    I have seen expensive kanna stored in Paulownia boxes to protect it from humidity shifts. You could do the same.

    You should watch the following vids:

    Sumokun - this should be your fist stop really basic but good stuff. He has a mix of western and Japanese stuff well worth viewing

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Sumokun/videos

    trace study - All in Japanese but amazing detail my favourite

    https://www.youtube.com/user/tracestudy/videos

    Sadatsugu Watanabe - All in Japanese and the sound is terrible but watch carefully.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tsugu+Watanabe

    BOOKS

    You should read https://www.amazon.com/Shoji-Kumiko-.../dp/0987258303 an Australian who studied in Japan he has a large section of the book devoted to kanna setup.

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Back on the sunny Gold Coast from Japan
    Age
    67
    Posts
    334

    Default

    Hi crackerkorean.

    The advice you've been getting from the forum members has been excellent, and there's not much more I can add.

    The blade does, however, seem to be very tight against the sides of the grooves (osae-mizo). I've shown this with red arrows from your previous photo (sorry for using your photo, but it was the only way to show this point).

    Side_Bulge.jpg

    You need to carefully scrape the sides of the osae-mizo towards the top of the kanna so there is about a 1mm gap on both sides to allow for lateral adjustment of the blade. This may also relieve some of the stress that the blade appears to be applying to the sides of the kanna. I'm not sure whether this will solve the problem with the mysterious bulge, but it may help.

    Des
    See some of my work and general shoji/kumiko information at kskdesign.com.au

    My Instagram page
    My YouTube channel

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Yorktown
    Age
    44
    Posts
    14

    Default

    The blade does not seat in either Dai. From what I have read this is common due to drier conditions here in the US??
    I have also read that the blade should not be loose in the dai. (gotta love the internet)
    The bulge is still there when the blade is removed. Another thing I read is that this is caused by improper seasoning of the wood. If that is the case, I am not sure.
    Des, thank you for that little bit of information, that is something that I have no seen.

    I have watched many hours of all three of those youtube channels and planned on doing everything Sumokun explains to setup the kanna. Other than storage I have found most of the information out there. Maybe that could be a good sticky? Just all the little things a beginner needs to know?

    Thanks for all the help. I just want to make sure that I do not damage anything.

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crackerkorean View Post
    The bulge is still there when the blade is removed.
    Do as Des suggest opening up the sides a little for lateral movement.

    Yes you want it tight how tight is hard to explain. The first time I did it I made it to loose and had to pack up the bed with thick paper.

    You should NOT be able to push the blade into place with your hand. Maybe you can push the blade 90% - 95% of the way into the dai but you must need a hammer to get it the last 5-10%.

    Just follow Sumokun instructions slow slow testing as you go.

    I dare not give more advice for this is something I am still learning myself. But I think you are doing the right thing practicing on a cheap blade.

    Its just practice and experience.

    This thread has reminded me that I need to have another go at tuning my kanna again. Need to buy a new dai, and try the set up again.

    Old dais can be badly warped you can plane it flat and square no problem.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Adelaide Hills, South Australia
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crackerkorean View Post

    Des, thank you for that little bit of information, that is something that I have not seen.
    Cracker, just in case you haven't connected that last post from Des K. to the author that both Thumbsucker and I have referred to, he is one and the same Des King.

    You're getting some expert advice there...[emoji2]



    Stay sharp!

    Neil
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  9. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Sure looks like the plane on the right has developed a crack in the top center of the dai, which would provide some room for movement when the blade is inserted (see Des' marked up photos above).

    Pam

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Yorktown
    Age
    44
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Pam, it does look like a crack but thats just the way its colored.

    Here are some photos from grinding the blade. I actually found another place where the steel was delaminating.


    Here is the ground surface. How can you tell if the metal is seperated?

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    The lamination line looks good to me. Grind your bevel nice and slow.

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Adelaide Hills, South Australia
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thumbsucker View Post
    The lamination line looks good to me. Grind your bevel nice and slow.
    It occurs to me that it would be a good time to check the width of the ita-ura at what will be the new edge and, if necessary, whether ura dashi is best done now or after bevel is ground. However, I don't have enough expertise to suggest which would be best.



    Stay sharp!

    Neil
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  13. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    How can you tell if the metal is seperated?

    You would be able to see a shadow line. A section were the lamination line becomes a touch wider and darker. Also you could feel the de-lamination with your finger nail when you scratch it.

    We need to see the ura, did you grind into the hollow on the back?

    I would be inclined to do ura dashi after you have partially 95% ground your bevel. That way you have less metal to push out requiring less force & effort, also I have never seen ura dashi done on a blade that did not have a bevel.

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Yorktown
    Age
    44
    Posts
    14

    Default

    It took a while. Still not sure about the laminations. Some rust developed between the layers while I was using the waterstone.

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,567

    Default

    That looks good grind the bevel and then tap out the ura.

    Remember you do not want a wide flat at the leading edge of the ura. A very narrow 2-3mm wide ura flat will suffice as it is felt to be better then a wide 4mm plus flat.

    Looking at the photo above I would tap out a bare minimum say until you 1.5mm then hone the back this allow you to remove the pitting in the ura while achieving a 3mm wide flat on the ura.

    In my experience when tapping out it may look like nothing is happening, you will be amazed how you can tap lightly for 1 minute, in your case only in the middle of the width of the blade. It will look like nothing happened (but you should be able to feel it with your finger nail) but as soon as you pass the blade over a stone (a few strokes) you will see that in fact you have moved / pushed enough metal out on the ura side.

    Also you seem to be working to much of the ura on the stone. Try to preserve the hollow as much as possible.

    Do this by focusing on keeping the leading 3mm of the ura closest to the bevel on the stone 75% of the time, and then only ever 4th stroke (25% of the time) move more of the the ura on to the stone. This avoids grinding a step into the ura while preserving the hollow as much as possible.

    OR you can do this -:

    First stroke 3mm of the URA on the stone
    Second stroke 12mm of the URA on the stone
    Third stroke 24mm of the URA on the stone
    Fourth stroke 48mm of the URA on the stone

    Then go back to 3mm again.

    I hope this makes sense???



    Sometimes rust just happens during sharpening, just dry and clean up well and use a good rust inhibitor asap.

    I would not worry to much about the rust at this point.

    Grind the bevel
    Tap out the ura
    Flatten the back on a course stone

    Then remove rust by what ever means you have and use a good rust inhibitor

    Then lastly do the final sharpening & honing

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Adelaide Hills, South Australia
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crackerkorean View Post
    . Some rust developed between the layers while I was using the waterstone.
    The lamination boundary line can be the most prone to oxidisation on some blades. This is probably caused by the flux that is used by the blade smith during forging.

    As Thumbsucker points out, you can get some oxidisation while working on the waterstones, particularly during an extended sharpening session.

    If you do a quick final polish on the fine stone, then immediately dry off and a wipe with camellia oil that should minimise any residual oxidisation.


    Stay sharp!

    Neil

    PS - if this blade becomes a keeper and you decide it is worth temoving the rust on the ura hollow and upper blade, something like metal lacquer will seal those areas from re-rusting after they have been cleaned up.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Kanna blade stuck - problem
    By snikolaev28 in forum JAPANESE HAND TOOLS
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 19th July 2012, 11:24 AM
  2. kanna blade chipping
    By Howard Pollack in forum JAPANESE HAND TOOLS
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 18th April 2012, 02:35 PM
  3. Tapping out kanna blade
    By Andreas87 in forum JAPANESE HAND TOOLS
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10th April 2012, 01:23 PM
  4. Hollow grinding, the blade edge and chinks
    By Astrodog in forum SHARPENING
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 13th July 2011, 08:04 PM
  5. A Couple of Blade Grinding Jigs
    By derekcohen in forum HOMEMADE TOOLS AND JIGS ETC.
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 1st February 2007, 10:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •