Thread: help about japanese plane blade

Basicly it's a thin layer of hard relatively brittle steel laminated to a thick layer of soft pliable steel, with a hollow formed in the back.
When the cutting edge gets close to the hollow, the edge needs to be tapped out

picture?


more info and images here Wood working tool, Japanese wood working tool shop
and here The Japan Woodworker Catalog - Plane Blades

Originally Posted by correntinos

hi people I want to know if someone can explain me the anatomy of japanese plane blade thank you very much , and if someaone have picter is welcome


thanks javier from argentina

Hi correntinos,

Here: Fujihisa Japan tool_Explanation of plane

is a web page with all the various parts of kanna (Japanese plane) explained (although, translated from Japanese to English there are some questionable terms and spellings). There is also information on conditioning the dai (good pictures, but again, the wording is a little confusing).

I hope this gets you started. Please ask more questions anytime.

Steve

Originally Posted by ian

When the cutting edge gets close to the hollow, the edge needs to be tapped out

Tapping (ura-dashi) is used to straighten an edge. Some warping will occur after the blade has been tempered, an artifact of the bi-metal composition. The warp can increase over time. More noticeable in old unused blades.

Increasing the width between the hollow and cutting edge (it only has to be 1mm) is done by re-grinding the face of the blade (uraoshi). See the following thread in this forum for expert advice on how to do this.

How to Sharpen a Plane Blade Part1: How to Make a Beautiful Ura (Uraoshi Technique)

As I periodically do uraoshi on my plane and chisel blades, my challenge is to keep the hollow from shrinking too fast from the cutting edge. After all, the hollow is there to reduce the amount of hard steel that has to be flattened on the face of the cutting edge.

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thanks a lot for yours quicky answer , sameone can tell me de procces of fabrication or forging of the blade, I know is lamineated bi metalic, melting a piece of iron and e high carbom stell ( white steel) , if sameone have information about frging the blade is welcome

thank to everybody

javier from the other sido of the world

Hi Javier

Blade lamination is a skilled craft that may not be adequately covered here on this forum.

Can't speak for other members of the forum, but it's not something I've done myself.

Perhaps as a starting point try the forum The Cutlers Forge...

You can also buy ready made laminated blade steel, eg here

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thaks neils for the reply I m studing the posibility or forge some laminated tools , thanks a los

javier from argentina

someone can tell me, if de two blades of the plane are sharpening , my question is about the chip is sharpenin too

thamks a lot

Originally Posted by correntinos

someone can tell me, if de two blades of the plane are sharpening , my question is about the chip is sharpenin too

thamks a lot

If you are referring to the chip breaker or sub-blade (ura-gane or osae-gane in Japanese), it is sharpened but not usually to a knife edge. Rather, it has a relatively steep secondary bevel applied (about 60 deg - the primary bevel angle is around 20 deg). The steep, secondary bevel is not very wide, perhaps .5 to 1 mm. The ura-gane does not need to be sharpened as often as the main blade, but check it for condition and keep it clean.

It is most important that the chip breaker and main blade fit tightly together (no space between them), so the ura-gane must be flattened as well. If the two blades don't lie flat together after flattening (one corner of the chip breaker is higher than the other) you can equalize the difference by adjusting (increasing or decreasing the bend on the opposite corner). In use, the ura-gane is set very close to but always slightly back from the cutting edge. Very close for fine shavings (about .5 mm) and slightly farther back for thicker shavings (about 1 mm).

Hope this helps answer your question.

Steve

thaks a lot sheets , It too dificult to me, can take information about japanese tool , we have in my city very few japanese and nobody know about japanese tools , know somebody can tell me how the japonese bladesmith do the hollow in the blade ( I think with a sen but I m not sure )

Steve, isn't that information around here somewhere? I recall someone posting some killer videos of blacksmiths at work, but I'm not sure if they covered the creation of the ura... Counting on your brain to be functioning better than mine.... (I'm a fool, I know.)

thanks a lot for your help if someone have some information about the videos , I m very interesting and It will be very useful for me

thanks again
javier from the other side of the world

Originally Posted by yojimbo

Steve, isn't that information around here somewhere? I recall someone posting some killer videos of blacksmiths at work, but I'm not sure if they covered the creation of the ura... Counting on your brain to be functioning better than mine.... (I'm a fool, I know.)

My brain works most of the time - unfortunately, that doesn't guarantee anything productive. The rest of me - ah, never mind...

However, I did bookmark the link to those videos (all in Japanese, but the pictures tell the story). Here:
http://web.mac.com/nami_aru/Daiku/いらっしゃい.html

The ura is created either by sen (scraping) or by grinding. I think the hand grind method is shown for a kanna, but they also have very large radius abrasive wheels as well. I suspect that kanna and nomi would have the ura done by grinding more commonly than by sen, but noko are almost always scraped if hand made (as far as I know).

I remember the films now -- I'm almost sure (I haven't gone there yet) they used a large wheel.

But I'm sure our new pal, correntinos, will enjoy the videos -- they're really fascinating.

Thanks for pulling up that link: I had it on my old (late, dead, breathed its last) computer, but clearly I've lost the bookmark.

thank a lot for your answer , in the video when the bladesmith temple for hardering the blade use ( first I think is clay but reading I read the japanese bladesmith use miso for templer the blade ) someone know if the miso is mistured whit other ingredients

thamks a lot
javier