Thread: Japanese Dovetail Chisel

Originally Posted by rufflyrustic

I may get used to the price, but my wallet won't, not short term anyway I do appreciate that they are specifically and specially handmade.



Ah Ha!!!! now that part makes sense.

So, I suppose the next question is what iri nomi - matching tsuki and ichou - do you have on hand?

Any photos and sizes of thes particular nomi?

Thanks
Wendy

Hi Wendy,

I have never heard of iri-nomi, what do they look like? I couldn't find it on the net either.

I know irimoya nomi, are you talking about those? With very long neck?

Whatever it looks like since I haven't heard of it I probably don't have them with me, so it'll have to be ordered

Thanks

Woops!!!! Ari-nomi!!! sorry Soatoz

Originally Posted by rufflyrustic

Woops!!!! Ari-nomi!!! sorry Soatoz

Oops stupid me, that was obvious if I'd given it a thought a bit more... Hahaha.

Yeah, the ones that are shown on the HP are ready. But these were made for myself, so it's got the best quality material (boxwood) for the handle so they are just a bit more expensive than having red and white oak for the handle.

Tasai's waiting line is about 3 months long, so if you order now it would be 3 months from now when you receive them.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Pam

Thanks, So, I wasn't expecting the 60mm for a couple or three months yet. What a pleasant surprise.

I've included a link to Tomohito-san's listing for my chisel so you can check out the angles, etc. So far it's working fine for me, but I haven't given it any huge tests.

http://www.japantool-iida.com/_itycm...148824599.html

Pam

Hi Pam,

Oh~~~~, now I know why people say bachi-nomi can be used for dovetail making. Yeah, dovetails are possible, but not the half blind dovetails. When I was saying dovetails, I was always thinking about half blind dovetails. Also if it's just a normal dovetail, you wouldn't need any bachi nomi either (for normal dovetail making you only need an ari-nomi for male that has sharp corners (not shinogi nomi) ), so I was assuming when people said dovetail they meant half blind dovetails as well.

In above page from Iida-san, it says bachi nomi can be used for making half blind dovetails, but I can't see why this is possible. The angle of the corners are too big to fit the corners of the socket (female) isn't it??? When I make a half blind dovetail, the corners have smaller angle than the angle of the bachi-nomi. The second photo in the following page.

http://www.geocities.com/soatoz/nomi..._Dovetail.html

This is half blind dovetail joint (Han-kakure-ari-tsugi) I make, and you can see bachi nomi won't reach the corners of the female socket. You'd need a pair of kiridashi, right and left, to reach the corners if you were to make it with out the specially designed chisel.

Do you see what I mean?

I've added some drawings for both female and male chisels as well to make everything clear.

Cheers(^^)

OK, So, let's suppose that you have some half-blind dovetails to make and you've never heard of Tasai's chisels. This approximates the entirety of the western woodworking experience, and yet we've managed to make half-blind dovetails. How would you do this?

Tage Frid, a very famous woodworker, cut the difficult areas with a scraper blade, put it in the sawed kerf and hammered it straight down. Works a charm.

Cosmo (Rob Cosman) has a couple of dvd's out in which he uses his modified LN chisel, which looks amazingly like a bachi nomi with unnecessary, gross blade behind the nomi shape.

Jim Kingshott pared with western and/or Japanese chisels, but regular paring chisels, not even bachi nomi. I'd detail this more, but this video is on tape and my vcr broke a few weeks ago. I'm still trying to convince myself to get it fixed. I'd buy another, but they're difficult to impossible to find.

Several woodworkers have mentioned grinding the beveled sides to a hollow grind, as witnessed by the Blue Spruce chisels.

And on it goes. Now I'm willing to allow that the special Tasai and Kunikei chisels could provide some advantage in time, neatness, and general contentment, but I truly don't see the advantage yet, particularly given the size problem. How do they work?

Pam

An article in one of the Australian woodworking magazines covered a technique used by a lady here to cut blinds. She has ground the first inch or so of teeth from one of her dovetail saws and she taps it into the kerf with a mallet, similar to Tage Frid.

Cool, SilentC (What a user name! Even writing "silent c" betrays the name. ), great idea. What are the Australian ww rags' names?

Pam

Here's one for you Pam, Australian Wood Review

If you think you'd like to read one, let me know and I'll send you a copy. Make that an old, well thumbed, copy .

Thanks, Groggy, AWR looks like a great magazine. I almost ordered the current issue, but shipping is such a killer. Very nice of you to offer an issue, but I wouldn't want to break up any sets.

Pam

In above page from Iida-san, it says bachi nomi can be used for making half blind dovetails, but I can't see why this is possible. The angle of the corners are too big to fit the corners of the socket (female) isn't it??? When I make a half blind dovetail, the corners have smaller angle than the angle of the bachi-nomi.

Hi So

Pam made a couple of good points. I can expand on these as I have a few diagrams to hand (having done this before).

I have a couple of nice Iyoroi fishtails, plus a few I made myself, such this one:

It is used to clean out the corner of half blind dovetails, like this:

The alternative is to use a skew chisel. The difference is that a fishtail chisel is pushed forward and a skew is slid in a slicing motion:

Tage Frid, a very famous woodworker, cut the difficult areas with a scraper blade, put it in the sawed kerf and hammered it straight down. Works a charm.

Here is the one I made (out of a steel trowel). The HSS blade is as thin as a saw kerf.

Pam, as I recall Jim Kingshott did not use anything but his nomi to clean out dovetails.

Regards from Perth

Derek

What are the Australian ww rags' names?

I think this particular story was in Australian Woodworker. I don't subscribe to it any more but I'll see if I can dig out that issue. From memory, the lady had been voted woodworker of the year.

Originally Posted by Pam

Thanks, Groggy, AWR looks like a great magazine. I almost ordered the current issue, but shipping is such a killer. Very nice of you to offer an issue, but I wouldn't want to break up any sets.

Pam

Hi Pam,

I don't collect the AWR, just the FWW series. If you'd like one it is no problem at all for me to send it off to you. It won't be recent as I haven't bought one for a little while, but we are not talking advances in neurosurgery here so it shouldn't be an 'issue' (pardon the pun).

If you would like to read it, send me a PM with an address and I'll post it off.

OK, So, let's suppose that you have some half-blind dovetails to make and you've never heard of Tasai's chisels. This approximates the entirety of the western woodworking experience, and yet we've managed to make half-blind dovetails.

Hi Pam,

Yes, I totally agree, I don't think this chisel is a neccesity for making half blinds. It's just that "for me" it was "nice to have" so I had it made for myself, and if anyone is insterested, I can sell. That's all there's to it.

Thanks